Our church is $125k in debt...and guess what?
They're asking us to help out. Apparently they've already gotten $30k from last week's requests, and they need another $100k within the next couple of weeks. I really don't know how to take this...in all honesty the first thing that comes to mind is: Wtf?Not so much because we're being asked to help, that's expected, but moreso because I have no idea as to what caused this debt to begin with (I kinda sorta skipped church last week when they went over it). Is it mortgage related? Are parishioners not tithing enough? I can only assume it has something to do with this economy because it seems to have come out of nowhere.
Reasons aside though, does our community even HAVE the extra funds to help bail out our little churchy church? Cuz I gotta tell ya, the amount of cash people have access to these days are slowly drying up. And what we DO have, most of us are holding on to in case of something even crazier happening. At least that's what I'd assume is happening :)
So @ church yesterday we were all asked to "sacrifice" and contribute a little more this week, and the next, so that we can clear this debt and start Easter fresh. How wonderful it would be if this indeed happened! But I can't help but wonder if we might be in the same situation again 3 months from now? If that were the case, they (the church) would be hardpressed to get even *more* of these extra funds from us to help get on track again. Not only that, is it even our duty as followers of Christ to do whatever it takes to help out? And what if we don't? Will the church file bankruptcy and leave all it's members behind? (is that even possible?) My moral side says YES - it's your obligation to help clear out this debt. But my logical/frugal side says NO - we may very well be in this same situation again.
It's hard speculating without the facts. When it comes down to it, I'll do my best to contribute & sacrifice as much as possible w/out putting my family's livelihood in harm's way. How much that amounts to I couldn't tell ya. All I know is that things start looking a little rough when even your church is having a hard time getting through this mess...not a complaint, just an observation ;)
Labels: charity, crazy economy, in the real world
posted by J. Money at
7:36 AM
20 Comments:
J, I would recommend you talk to the church staff about this so you will have a true understanding of why your church is is this amount of debt and a peace about how much to give.
Our last church had a big debt but they also had a big building project that had just occurred. So we knew where the debt came from.
Interesting for sure!
Whether I would help my Church out in this circumstance would depend upon the level of transparency re: the debt. How much? What did the Church go into debt for? Has the Church implemented changes to avoid future indebtedness? Do parishoners have a say in future indebtedness?
I agree. You need to find out more details from your church before giving blindly. Just because it's your church doesn't mean you should lend it money. Like any other situation, find out the facts, and see if it is worth it.
If it is due to mismanagement of something then that problem should be addressed so it doesn't happen again. Chuches are not immune to corruption, either.
You'll have to give us an update when you find out what the dealy-o is, and if you're going to help pay it off!
Definitely go find out more information, either ask someone who was at last week's service or go to church officials personally. If they want you to help with the debt, they owe you an explanation, what it is for etc. I have no idea what would happen if the church defaulted, depends on what type of loan it is. Just curious, approximately how much would each parishioner have to give to clear the debt? You seem to indicate this is a small church.
My church is also has a 36K deficit, so they are asking that we increase our tithe. Being a PK, I understand the type of budgeting that the church has and if I can will increase my tithe. Many times, the deficit is due to the surrounding economy. Church's are non-profit organizations,but they still need enough to pay for their pastor, overhead, you get the idea. If people are not as giving, the church's main source of income dwindle.
That's funny, I never thought of any other meaning for a full cup, lol.
Regarding your post, ideally the church members are (1) involved enough in the church business to know where the money is going, and (2) all tithing their full 10% to start with. I have seen it proved in so many lives (including my own) that if you give generously (and RESPONSIBLY), you will be generously rewarded, even in tough times.
If a church won't be honest with its members about where the money is going, then I wouldn't personally support it with my attendance let alone my $$$ =)
Bad investments with Madoff? j/k, I hope! Definitely ask what the deal is, that way you'll be able to make an informed decision about how much additional cash you'd like to throw at 'em.
Wow... find out what's going on. If I am asked to give more, I would just be curious as to what they're doing with it.
With no intended offense to the devout, I'm reminded of George Carlin's observations:
He loves you.
"He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more."
I found this article especially interesting because I too have battled with the concept of my churches debt. I go to a MEGA church in San Diego, CA (15,000 people a day attend) and last financial report we were given the church owed $9,000,000....yup NINE MILLION....on their building. I talked with one of my mentors about this because I was conflicted tithing to a church that had 20 flat screen T.V.s. I decided I would tithe partly to the church, but then I also tithe each month to a Christian Radio station (KLove) because I listen to that frequently and am sure they could use some spare change. At some point one needs to reflect and see if the church is spending God's money efficiently.
To BIGA$$Superstar: God needs no money....it's the imperfect humans that are trying to do his work.
J-
The news of your church's financial woes is not nothing new to us living in Cleveland, Ohio. The Catholic Diocese recently announced the closing of more than 50 churches in Northeast Ohio a week ago.
See link:
http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=109271&catid=45
Many are appealing to the bishop but it all comes down to $$.
So you ask whether you should pitch in more? That choice is up to you but keep in mind that if your current church closes, where is the next closest church that you would attend?
Like others have mentioned, I'd ask a few questions to find out where the debt is coming from.
I find it surprising that they didn't give this information out when they asked for the increased donations.
My church realized that they had a fairly significant debt last year that was growing in a way they hadn't expected. They put explanations in the weekly newsletter and on their website-- you might check to see if your church has something similar.
In my church's case, apparently they had two main problems. The first was that their accounting was off and had been for a few years. And the second main problem was that they were (and had been) basing all of their planning off of a mis-count of the parishioners. Essentially they were adding people to the list without checking to see if anyone needed to be removed. My guess is that there are calculations that say if you have X parishioners, you can reasonably expect to bring in $Y. Plus they may be eligible for monies coming from outside the congregation, depending on the number of parishioners.
My church ended up doing a number of things to address the problem. They did receive more donations to help pay off the debt, but that wasn't the primary solution to their problem. They realized that they had to cut their spending, too. They laid off employees and switched to using more volunteers.
I think that if I were you, I would want to know what's going on and what other steps they're taking besides asking for donations. If you can't find out on your own, it might be worth calling and asking.
I'm sure you would be able to speak to an elder or someone who could better shed light on the situation. I'll guarantee you they didn't get into over $100k in debt overnight. Maybe they want to fully pay off the building or something. I know that people aren't giving as much as they used to because they don't have the funds to give which hurts. There are a few non profits in our area where the people who live off support are living on reduced salaries.
Yes, you all are definitely right - first thing we need to find out is where this debt is coming from and what the gameplan is to avoid it in the future. Out of all the weeks to miss, eh?! Unfortunately I passed on the weekly newsletter too, so it'll have to wait 'til next week. That should at least give me some time to determine how much I should help contribute, which I"ll def. be doing....it's just a matter of starting (I currently don't tithe, but I do give some cash every now and then).
@Ginger - man, i REALLY hope it's not due to mismanagement or corruption...although i doubt we'd hear about the latter one, eh?
@Miss M - no idea how much each of us would have to contribute because they're still only asking for donations, but it would prob. be a lot. our church isn't all that small, but it's not huge either. in fact, it's 1 of the 2 we normally attend (this ones' a bit closer, but not our favorite...)
@Kimberley - yeah that makes sense. what's a "PK" mean btw? Pastor's Kids? I went to abbreviations.com and 70 came up! haha
@popoloco - i've heard the same! the more you give the more your life will reward you back...i don't tithe 10% myself, or even close to that, but it's something i've been considering lately. I'll probably start with $50-$100 a month.
@RainyDaySaver - wouldn't THAT be something! one of those "it could never happen to me" kinda stuff, right? scary...
@BigAssSuperstar - ahhhhh, you went there didn't you! it's all good, we all have our opinions good sir ;)
@One Chance To Live - OMG (literally). That is a looooot of money - I'm sorry to hear that. I really like your idea of splitting it up like that, good for you.
@wldflr - boy that sucks, thx for sending over the link for us to check out though. if ours closed down we'd go to a farther away one, but it would be our all-time favorite one (where we had our 1st date & got married) so it wouldn't be *that* bad for us. But for some others and our community? Not good.
@Anonymous - good points. and I'm glad they were able to pinpoint it and get a better handle on things :)
Hi J!
That picture at the top of this entry is hilarious. Are you said R-teest? Cheers for teaching my new word of the day - "tithing". I think it shall be the new title of my pf rap for round 3... :P
If you believe in the mission and message of your church, give as much as you possibly can.
I go to a "plant" Protestant church, but I can't offer much advice as our operating budget is less than $5k weekly. I only hope that we can own our own building someday!
@AllieInTheCity - i sure ammmm! that was a fun little ditty that took me 2 mins to doodle ;) and i didn't even look at a picture! haha....yes, you should totally rap it off girl!
@Kaitlyn - yayyyy, there you are! i wanted to know your specific thoughts on it - so thanks :)
There are many churches in my area, including my own church, that the banks are calling in loans and foreclosing. The sad this is that banks are not willing to finance churches anymore and if they did in the past, the term is 2-5 years. We started construction prior to the economic crash and moved in when the economy got bad. Some many of our congregation have one spouse out of work, people afraid of being laid off and furloughed without pay. So, its not the church or people's fault, its just a fact that happened. I understand there are also several churches in the area in the same dilemma. I understand that most of the churches in our area are 1/3 down in giving. So, I understand your concerns. This is exactly what our church is going thru.
oh man, yeah that IS sad for sure...this Economy just affects a lot more people/communities that people think. hopefully things will get back on track and people will feel more secure donating money and supporting these communities getting hit. I know I could do better :)
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