Confessions of an Online Poker Player.
This is a guest post from an Anonymous Professional Poker Player (sexy!). Update: Part 2 is now live.There is an old saying, "Poker is the hardest way to make an easy living." After playing full-time poker for 4 years, I can't think of a better statement to describe it. There are obvious benefits to poker: You set your own schedule, you work when you want to work, and your performance is relatively proportional to your income. If you play on the internet, you can work from practically anywhere. Unfortunately, every one of these have a catch.
You can set your own schedule, but over time you'll realize certain times of day are much more profitable than others. Playing from 10PM to 5am on Friday nights, and 12AM to 5AM on Saturday nights is as profitable as playing 8 hours a day Mon-Thursday. If you want to be successful as a poker player you can set your own schedule, but the hours you want to play won't necessarily be the hours you want to work.
Poker is difficult, psychologically.
In the long-run when you play well and put in your hours, you will make more money. The actual income that comes out of poker comes in violent swings, though. There are many different systems you can play to try to maximize your return. Note: it is important to devise a system, you cannot play professionally and wander from game to game at various limits-IT DOESN'T WORK. I try to play a system that minimizes swings, but I will get into my own play in my next post (J: this will feature a "day in the life of a poker player" - stay tuned!).The most miserable feeling in the world is to put in an 8 to 10 hour day working as hard as you possibly can, and then have a week's worth of salary taken away from you. This makes it hard to relate poker to the real world. At the same time, it is necessary to make this connection on other levels. Anyone who chooses to play professionally will experience $1000+ daily swings, even if you are more of a grinder trying to make $50,000-$100,000 a year. $100 is nothing at the poker table, but when you return to the real world, $100 should be the same to you as anyone else making $50,000-$100,000 annual income. This is hard to relate after a $5,000 up day or even a $5,000 down day because what's $100 more?
Cash Game players
Online, you can be a cash game player, a sit and go tournament player (SNG player), or a multi-table tournament player (MTT player). I think playing cash games is the best way to make a living as a poker player. Although it's psychologically tougher than playing tournament style freeze-outs, you can always find a cash game running and it is easy to slowly move up in limits.Sit and Go players (SNG)
SNG players will eventually find that there isn't a lot of action at the higher limits, and you can find yourself waiting and competing with other pros for a limited amount of bad players to show up. Often times SNG pros will make the move to cash games after a few years - this is not a bad career path. The toughest thing about being a no limit cash game player is the reality that you can always lose your entire days work in 1 hand. Your money is on the table and you cannot be afraid to put it in. SNG players don't have this issue because all you can lose at one time is the initial "buy in" for the tournament.Multi-Table Tournament players (MTT)
The most popular and most fun system is playing multi-table tournaments (MTT), but there is a lot you need to know before embarking on such a life. My first 6 months as a poker player I was a multi-table tournament player. The big draw of MTTs is the chance to win $10,000 - $1,000,000+ in one tournament. There is also prestige surrounding the MTT world. The online poker community tracks tournament players closely (there are tournament leader boards on poker sites themselves, and tournament player rankings on poker blog sites). You can get sponsorships for major events like the World Series of Poker just from making a name for yourself as a top online tournament player! A cash game player who is twice as successful could go completely unnoticed.The biggest difference between a MTT player and a cash game or SNG player is that while the cash game player is steadily making money, sometimes with down days and down weeks (or even down months), the multi-table tournament player is steadily losing money with huge spikes at random times. A multi-table tourney player is likely to make more than his average annual income in one tournament at some point. You never know when it will come, though. If you look at the graphs of top MTT players, they make all their annual income over the course of a handful of tournaments, an amount that makes for less than 0.5% of the total tournaments that they play.
You can go months, slowly losing money as an MTT player and be playing flawless poker. This can affect your sanity: when poker becomes your sole source of income and you go months without making any income, you start to question if you can succeed. This is the nature of tournament poker, they have massive fields and you are not going to make any real money if you aren't finishing in the top 3 (very rare for any player). The biggest problem I had as a MTT player was the schedule. All the tournaments overlapped, so the day was very long. MTT poker takes less focus on an individual table than any other form, so you want to be playing a bare minimum of 6 tournaments at once. Really, with an ideal dual monitor setup, you should keep joining tournaments with optimal structure and maintain 12 tables at a time. This sounds difficult, but MTT poker is actually less stressful and more fun because you never lose a lot at once and you come in expecting to lose so all the big swings are upswings.
The problem is 6 hour days turn into 14 hour or even 20 hour days, without breaks for meals or even using the bathroom, without taking a laptop with you. MTTs take a minimum of 4 hours to get to the end, if you end up lasting that long, but it is foolish to only sit 1 table at a time so you never hit the end of your day until you make the decision to stop joining more tournaments. Cash game players can sit out whenever they want and not lose out as a result; this allows for a better lifestyle. I try to exercise every day and eat healthy meals., but as a MTT player this is almost impossible. You'd have to pre-make your meals and get everything done before you start playing each day because you just never know when you'll finish.
Most everyone who decides to play poker full-time has ambitions of winning a World Series Bracelet and making a million dollars. I, myself, normally go to Vegas in June-July for the WSOP events. I bring about $10,000 and lose it every year, then go back home and get to work online again; even with my lack of success I enjoy the vacation and the break from monotonous online play.
Poker can become a grind.
This year I skipped the WSOP and bought a house. The grind becomes so boring after a while, that it's easy to forget why I am even doing it. Moving up in limits, shots at the Series or World Poker Tour events--that is the fun part of the job. The chance of winning big is the fun of poker; otherwise it becomes the same grind of any other job, without the guaranteed income and health insurance. Not all poker players feel this way. I know a live cash game pro who never has any desire to take a shot at anything and only moves up in limits when it is mathematically sensible. This type of mentality is built to succeed as a poker player, but usually the type of person with that kind of mindset is not the person who aspires to play poker in the first place.I also know people that are taking so many shots with their money, they waste all their income trying to get on TV or win the big tournament and sometimes they do win it, but then they put all that money on the line again, going for the even bigger shot. That type of mindset will kill you.
Poker gives you freedom
What you get as a poker player is total freedom. Freedom to gamble, to take your shots, to work from anywhere, and to not work when you don't feel like working. If you don't have discipline though, you'll fail - plain and simple. You also need to recognize when you're tired at the table, when your mind isn't focused right and get up and quit, even if you don't want to. You can't show up to work tired and hung over and half-ass it in poker, it will cost you.Poker can be very rewarding, but if you are thinking of playing professionally you have to know it is a job, it has to be taken seriously, and it will stop being fun (J: perhaps like blogging full-time?). My favorite part of the job is waking up when I naturally wake up in the morning (afternoon), having no commute, and not having to answer to anyone else.
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J: I know this was pretty long, but I hope you enjoyed it! As a guy, the thought of playing poker full-time is incredibly fascinating (and is one of my top 5 dream jobs!). Stay tuned for part 2 when we learn the "day in the life of" a professional poker player. That's when we'll *really* see what it's like!
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This Series in the news:
- MSN Smart Spending: Secrets of an online poker player
- 2+2 Poker Forums: Confessions of an online poker player
Labels: career, guest post, in the real world
posted by J. Money at
7:49 AM
58 Comments:
I used to make great money in poker...as a massage therapist at the table tournaments in Vegas. Watching how hard they play, and how it's such a split of psychology and what you draw, I would never want to have to make my money from what's dealt on the table.
wowwwww, VERY cool! the last time I was in Vegas I got a massage while at the tables myself, and it was an interesting experience to say the least. I think it was like $5 a minute and I just wanted 1 minute to see what it was like (and to say I got a massage while playing poker) but the whole time she was doing it she kept saying that I needed to extend it to 3 minutes and when I'd say no thanks she'd press even harder - and not in a good way :( So after 45 seconds I was just waiting for it to end so she'd leave me alone....
I'm thinking she just sucked as both a masseuse and a professional :) Still an interesting experience though, never knew that was even an option until then.
Interesting post - such a world away from my own. I have to admit that I have never found the world of professional poker playing to be desirable for myself (mostly because I have practically no competitive spirit) but I found this a fascinating peek into a world I know nothing about. Thanks for sharing it!
YES! AMAZING GUEST POST. I LOVE LOVE LOVE poker. I try not to play online much cause of the volient swings. I don't have the stones to play too high of a limit. I am dying to hear more from this guy.
Glad you guys (and girls) are enjoying this :) It's certainly one of my own favorite hobbies/dreams! In fact, hitting up AC this weekend to give it the ol' college try...just not good enough to play full-time as yet, but one day ;)
I'll post up the 2nd article by this guy soon...
Why would you want to play poker for a living? You are a loser, dude.
I am a bit disappointed that you only gave a few lines to Cash play and nothing at all devoted to Rakeback or Bonus Structure. IMO that is the only thing that makes grinding worth it. Taking the easiest example I calculated that anyone who can earn 1 million Poker Stars points (Supernova Elite) will earn a minimum of 80,000 the first year and 100,000 the second year as a pro poker player. This is assuming break even play so a small win rate of .5-1BB/100 hands even at 2-4 limit would pad that nicely to a solid income. If you have the focus to 8 + table you can even get it done in a 2500 hour work year (50 hour weeks)
I like playing poker, and while this is interesting.... what exactly is a professional poker player contributing to society?
You don't have to play at the highest limits to make significant money. When in college I would make in the 15k/year range playing at the $25 tables(4 tableing about 80 hrs a month). It is incredibly boring and often frustrating. I like my current job so much better now, but whe we need extra money I will put in some time online.
Poker players contribute entertainment to society. If nobody played, who would you gamble with?
Bonuuses and rakeback are great ways to add to your winnings.
What does contributing to society have anything to do with how someone makes a LEGAL living. When you win a tournament over a certain amount you pay taxes... What else are we "required" to contribute in your mind? I would be interested to see what your job is. You are probably just one of those people who wish that they could be doing something but don't have the stones to take a shot so you sit back and sip the haterade all day. GG, GL, GN.
In Response to Anonymous#2, You are right about rakeback and bonuses, as far as I know you cannot get rakeback on PS; I forfeited SuperNova status to play all my games on Full Tilt with 30% rakeback. I pay my mortgage every month in rakeback alone. I was trying to direct the article toward readers that might not be familiar with online poker and didn't want to get into explaining about rakeback and bonuses. They are kinda like things you worry about once and then they are taken care of, not something I think about often. Player Stats database sites would also fit into that category of -EXTREMELY IMPORTANT-- not sure if I mentioned that, but I will in next post. Also, minor typo in Bold title line of SNG is Sit and Go, not Single Game Players. I will write that other post about a day in the life, very busy days right now with FTOPS VIII going on, I'll try and make time, expect to be bored by it.
"Poker is the hardest way to make an easy living."
As i have been playing for a living online now for over 9 years i can tell you it is tuff but can be done.
Yes you have to put a lot of hrs into it but the pay off is great you get to work when you want and just get up and walk away and go do what ever.
I would like to ad to a few tips i have seen here #1 if you are new to the game then play tourneys and sit-n-goes never cash games watch and learn and if you realy try you will learn some thing in ever game.
As for rake back you can make a ton of money with it and make a good living but to start out playing or just a few years in that is not the way to go.
There are sites were you can play ever game all month long 24/7 for $20.00 usa and even if you have been playing along time it is the way to go becase what you win you get take a sec and join a forum that i have and you will see.
Anonymous said... ( Why would you want to play poker for a living? You are a loser, dude. )
Let me just say that i would bet a football player got started by the love of the game and not the money and it is the same for a real poker player and the pay off is not to bad i see peple go to work ever day for 40 hrs a week and bring home what i make in 4 hrs and i see were the foot ball player or a lot of dif peple in sports make millions ever year so dont kick some thning you dont know any thing about or you cant do.
There are obvious benefits
You can set your own schedule.
make $50,000-$100,000 a year or more.
also try to eat healthy meals, get up ever few hrs and walk around and get 8 hrs sleep. and like any job never put it first to your familey.
that is all for now so i will leve it with this good luck on the tables and never play the cards play the player.
poker player
bluff123
With the debt this country is in legalizing on line and live poker halls (which create jobs!) should be a no brainer. Same as legalizing marijuana. Sure people will screw up their lives. They do that with booze, cigarettes, on line game playing, and all you can eat buffets also. America needs the cash and not tapping it is insane. Freedom entails the chance you will make bad choices. I would enjoy poker more if I knew I was paying for granny's health care while I did it and my account was safe from seizure.
I played the game for years. Then I started running a cut game----
3% rake. It is the only way to go.
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I wouldn't recommend on-line poker. I have tried for years taking my game from reality to "virtual reality" and it doesn't work. I have logged hours-months-years playing poker in real life and on-line poker doesn't match up. Of course the cards can roll out a million different ways, but we all know (well good players know)what is normal (statistically speaking) and what is not. It has been my experience in on-line play that what is not normal always happens, far from it for that matter. In real life you could play hundreds even thousands of hands and not have 3 players with straights, full boats, etc. but in on-line play this seems to happen 1 out of every 5 hands, this tells me something is not right! Stay away, it is fixed. And with more on-line rooms being run out of foreign countries there is no regulation.
I have to agree with "Anonymous". The chances of getting beat on three 9's by another player having three Aces is statistically small but when it happens over and over in just a few hands, something smells like dead fish! Plus, there is too much opportunity for collusion at any on-line table. You have to see your opponents eyes (and hands) in order to truly be a real poker player. Play on-line and all the statistics and odds go out the window. There is not one honest site out there, if you think there is you're very sadly mistaken.
Anonymous is right !
I played Live poker for years and I played online poker for years. The one thing that I seen was the hands where off online. I would play live and see a boat or straight maybe twice a night, online I would see this once an hour at least. Now I think the reason is when you play live people are dealing the cards and it takes time to shuffle the cards and cut the cards.As well with people we talk and some time the game slows and we have to say hey lets deal get this thing going. You also have down time when there is a dealer change even, unless you don't have a dealing which is even slower. Ok when you play online they are dealing cards fast, there is no break for dealers and no shuffle time. You will play 60 hands an hour online and 30 in live poker. I know those numbers can be up or down but that is close.
So with that said this is part of the reason you see more big hands online but still there is something fishy about online poker I would stay away as well . Where I live live games are hard to find unless you are a member of a county club. So this is why i stop. Also the hours I cant do just to much for me. I hope this helps some for those who want to read.
great blog! i wish there was more info from full time poker players and their experience with the game. i have a full time job and plan on keeping it, but would love to be profitable part time. I have played SNG's and cash games but have learned that cash games can be profitable with discipline and a little chance. I really want to learn how to put all info together and focus it on what i need. All in all, i know there is no magic formula but if you have any tips for amateurs who have been playing on and off for more than a handful of years but want to take there game a step higher online that would be fantastic (number of tables, tracking software, poker sites, bankroll mgmt, etc) all very valuable to me and others i'm assuming in my situation. Im headed out to vegas in two weeks and from previous experiences, i am only going to play $1/$2 cash. From assesing previous sessions that is the way to go. enough of my banter. I was an avid chess player for years and once i was turned on to poker , i could not resist the psychological aspect of the game. Cant wait for next blog !!!
I just got back from Vegas 3 weeks ago I played $1/$2 cash and it was fun . How ever I got a bad beat right off the bat I had a boat and got beat by a straight flush on the river!! This will turn you away from poker fast but I kept playing and ended up coming back there are enough people that have no idea what they are doing you will make it back if you just give it time.
As far as the games being "rigged" Some sites very well could be. Although sites would not benefit from this. One of the more likely reasons for "cooler" hands. That seem to happen more frequently online than live. Is simply the amount of hands you see online compared to live. I don't play as much as others but I can shell out 1,000 hands an hour online. Where a good dealer who is forcing the action and shuffling fast and keeping with the game can probably deal on average 35 hands an hour. So an hour online runs out to a live player playing over 28 hours. Two hours online could be equal to someone player 5 days a week 10 hours a day.
If you spent the equivelent time vs "similar" villians that you would find online. You would probably find the same result. With emphasis on similar players. My last visit to vegas playing at the 1-2 cash games in some of the casino's was similar to .02-.05 game online during a friday night. Although this really depends on your table makeup. The tighter players lead to stronger hands leading to more cooler hand seeing showdown <-- exag.
excellent and very informative blog. thank youfor writing it
I have made close to half million dollars in poker in the last 5 years online, it is a grind and you have to balance family and poker and sometimes thats hard to do. Also I recommend that you take a break once in awhile and relax from poker. GL all and see you at the tables
FOLD U FOOL
statistically online odds are nowhere near the same as live poker. over a year i kept track of cards in sng and mtt and the results were off the charts, more pairs, trips, boats, straights... than statistically possible
Online odds are exactly the same, the guy above me is goofy.
I play "full time" but that's really like 15 hours a week, 20 if I'm really on it. Why would I play more? I make around $300 / hr playing cash games and that's enough money for me. I have no idea why anyone would ever play a 20 hour day, that's insane, that's a huge leak man. You can't be playing anywhere near your best in hour 19.
Jesus, even 8-10 hour days. That's nuts unless you're nanonoko.
Lol at the people saying online poker is rigged, some dodgy small sites may be, but the vast majority of large sites are fine. The reason why you see so many more big hands so often is that in an hour live you may manage to get ~35 hands in per hour. Playing in a single table online you can get up to ~85 hands per hour. Multiply that by however many tables you are playing and of course you will see more 'big' hands.
You just need to have discipline to make it in the poker world. I have been playing poker for only 5 years and right now I am a millionaire. My house and my cars are paid off and 2 kids college future are secure (paid in full). I was making 10/hour where I used to work and 3 years ago after getting my tax refung back ($4500), I said I am going to invest it in poker. Absolutely great return in my investment( 2.8 million in a little less than 3 years), I have got some luck in some tournaments. I had the full support of my wife, wich is very important, Now I am enjoying life, taking vacation after vacation. If you want to do it, it's possible but you have to believe in yourself and be very discipline, thinking about it as a business investment not a job. If I can do it you can do it too. Good luck!
How in the world did you get a $4500 refund making $10/hr ($20K/yr). You kinda lost credibility with that comment.
As far as online poker, I'm just a casual player, but the bad beats you see virtually continuosly are ridiculous and in no way statistically possible. Stay away from Pokerstars, Full Tilt and Ultimate Bet. Not only are the bad beats ridiculous, but the betting from some players suggest they knew what was coming before the flop.
A question to the people saying that the major poker sites are rigged; Why would the major poker sites be running unfair games to skim a little extra on top of what they're already making? They are raking in billions of dollars a year running legitimate games. I know that if I were running a billion dollar company, I would be doing absolutely everything in my power to ensure that nothing could endanger my cash cow.
For what it's worth, I have been put in a lot of time playing poker online. Over the last year, I started keeping track of hands I played on Full Tilt and PokerStars. This database contains several hundred thousand hands, and there is no evidence of anything being off from the statistical "norm". My aces held up against kings 80% of the time just like they should, I flopped a set around 12% of the time, etc. These stats are well within the norm, as they should be over a relatively large sample size. I can all but guarantee that the people claiming that "something isn't right" haven't played anything close to the amount of hands that I have.
Of the players that I know personally and have seen play, the ones that think online poker is rigged all have a very poor understanding of the game. They also have a poor understanding of the math involved, particularly statistics. People don't realize that it takes a VERY long time for a statistic to be realized. It's very possible to lose with aces ten times in a row, then win with them twice, then lose ten more times. It could take having aces 10,000 times before you start to see an 80% win rate with them.
This is probably way too much for a comment so I'll stop it here.
I'd also like to agree with one of the above posters in saying that people who convince themselves that they see more "bad beats" online than live are failing to realize the difference in the amounts of hands being played per hour. One can easily play three times as many hands in an hour online as opposed to live, even if they stick to playing only one table at a time. If you decide to play more than one table at once, that number starts increasing even more. I usually play on four tables at once, and typically play around 350 hands per hour. this is TEN TIMES MORE than you can play in an hour at a casino. It would only make sense to see ten times more beats.
I copied this from another site, but the below explains in explicit detail how the sites are rigged. From my personal experience, I can 100% confirm it's truth.
I know a programmer who helped create the Poker Stars shuffle.According to him it is rigged as its a necessary evil from a business standpoint. Though not rigged for a specific individual the hands are rigged in a number of ways.By rigging it to dish alot of bad river beats it gives bad players who should have folded out a more even playing field with the sharks who would have taken all their cash.Its not just about bad beats either.Your chip count matters especially in tournies.In a tourney if you have the highest stack in the hand being played its programmed for the come from behind beats on 4th or river 70% of the time if the higher calls the lows all in.You'll see it happen constantly a hand where a lower chips goes all in preflop with pocket aces and a high stacks calls with like a 4 and 5 off suit.Flop dishes a 3rd ace with king and ten,last two cards 2 and 3 to give it to the higher chip caller with the ace to 5 straight.By rigging it this way it puts the odds with higher chips regardless of who had the percentages to win but keeps it so in the long run all the low chip callers do get some hits to block the arguement its rigged.You'll also notice if you pay attention that the first 4 cards flopped are often two of two different suits to leave flush possibilities for multiple hands going into the river,and often these also have a straight draw potential in their to keep the max amount in the hand betting big.Many times that final river card in these situations will dish a flush but with a card that also gave another caller his straight.Its by design this is not a coincidence.The program is alot more complicated then people even realize.
The above post is completely ridiculous. It's difficult to even make sense of what you're saying, but as for the example, I've seen that happen in a physical casino with an actual dealer and actual cards. People don't seem to understand that nothing is impossible, and even if someone's a 99% favorite to win a hand, THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE 1% of the time. That means for every 100,000 times that situation plays out, the 45 is going to win the hand 1,000 times. For a site that has dealt over 25 BILLION hands, of course things like that are going to happen, and often. If online poker is so rigged, how are there a ton of people with databases totaling millions of hands combined that say everything is perfectly within reason?
you obviously didn't read the post, or you are an idiot. It's not that it happens, it's the fact that is happens with such ridiculous frequency. High pockets vs. offsuit rags don't lose 70% of the time.
You're right, they don't. And that has been proven by the billions of hands played by millions of players. I have yet to see one person come forward with actual evidence that big pairs lose to offsuit rags more than they're statistically supposed to. You say that you can 100% confirm that what you're saying is true, but you have provided zero evidence to back up your claims.
Online sites have one incentive: Making Money. They do so by the rake. The rake is 5% of the total pot up to $3 for most sites. There is a real business incentive to put more hands in the pot to increase play to the river as to maximize rake. Additionally, by circulating money amongst players, it stays on the site and therefore is subject to the Rake Merry-Go-Round. Online sites want the money to stay evenly distributed amongst players so they get more of it! Therefore, the incentive to manipulate standard divaition and variance in hand play is ruled by greed. For those who think online sites need to "protect their cash cow", well, do you remember PartyPoker? Gone from the U.S. beause it was a corporation. They had to follow the U.S. laws that restricted gaming. So politically, every other site lives with the threat of "make it now or get shut down later". They are not regulated. They office in non-discript offshore buildings. They have no incentive to keep longgeivity. They could close any day based on the ponzie scheme they've created and they know it. Your deposits? Gone and what would you do? And this says nothing about how deposit money was invested in the first place, and lost, during last years credit and market crash. These are people who are corrupt. Running a schill game and slightly skewing the odds to psycholgically jack people to think that when that bad beat happens? You'll come back to play more.
Stay away.
There is no law against playing poker online in the U.S. What the UIGEA is doing, is restricting the ability of banks to process transactions to poker sites. It's not illegal to play, and it's not illegal to cash out. It's not even mandatory that banks don't process deposits until December 2009. Hopefully some of these new proposed bills get through and we can see some regulation. If the major sites were required to prove their games were legit in order to receive licensing in the U.S., maybe there wouldn't be so many conspiracy theorists. BTW, I have 124,781 hands in my Holdem Manager DB, and I've gotten aces 574 times. That's once every 217 hands, how often do they say you can expect to get them? Once every 220 hands? Seems right to me.
For a well-written, funny and intelligent perspecive on poker, both at the tables and online, please go to http://www.redsdeal.com
The writer and publisher of this site is someone I have known for over 30 years. He is the author of Texas Hold'em For Dummies and the lead author of Winning at Internet Poker For Dummies. He is also a money winner in the 2005, 2006 and 2007 WSOP.
I do not play poker, but I find the site and all of his writings to be educational, well-researched and entertaining.
There are two reasons why the odds may seem off on line. First has been mentioned a few times, number of hands per hour is high. The other that people are not taking into account is the number of players in a pot on line is higher than most live games. The odds of Aces winning goes down the more people are in a pot.
If you want to look at the odds you have to take the number of people in the pot. You will not see as many straights or trips when two or three people are in the pot on average as six in the pot on-line
For all of you posters that say the odds aren't rigged, you are idiots. In online tournament play the bigger stack wins in an all-in situation far too many times. The guy who posted "I know a programmer ..." is absolutely correct. Also, the blog never addressed cheat programs (bots, programs that let you see opponent's cards, etc.). There are plenty of them out there, if you want to throw your money away, go ahead and put it into online poker.
Listen i've read several articles of fellas bragging about this and that and odds are most "NOT ALL" are full of it. I've played poker full time since the early 90's and live in Tunica MS. I've seen players come and go more so in this career than vaccum cleaner salesman! People seriously underestimate the skill level needed and the knowledge of the game it takes to day in day out year in year out make a living from it. Poker is like sex.....every person you ask is good at it! The difference between online play and live play is little different. Live play takes more game skill online play ummmmm kinda takes more discipline and management. Some players, well alot actually DO NOT do both at a pro skill level. If your not playing in a live game at a major casino or card club there is a pretty decent chance you have more to learn before quitting your day job. I see it everyday, guy sits in 20-40 game at the shoe in Tunica and heck he is the best player back home he crushes all his buddies. Well thing is? Everyone there is there hometown hero for the most part. Sure those games have there share of donks, but most fail to realize they can't make enough off those guys to survive the times when the player they are up in the pot with is superior. This happens alot in online as well. If your a better player than your opponent you have to not only know it, but you also have to be able to explain exactly why! You have to be able to spot every mistake in game theory or percentages to the exact point or you should probably not quit your day job! My advice? Till the day comes and you can without question and can prove with stats over several months of play and you are able to beat say the 30-60 at the bellagio or the games such as 10-20 limit holdem on fulltilt or perhaps 2\5 blind nl? Stick with your job and play poker for fun and little extra spending money because i'm not downing anyone, but you just have little more studying to do before you can succeed. Best of luck and for all those dreaming of it? Dang man...i'd give anything for a desk,secretary and boring desk job! It's not all sunshine and rainbows! Poker is like any other sport. There is not that many people of succeed. 1 in 5000 people who gamble regularly will show profit during there lifetime! That is a fact, but hey? If you still wanna do it? I say when you can't stop all you can do is say Go Cat Go lol! GL
If you want to check out what happens to people who try to buy those programs that let you see the other player's hole cards, check out this link:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54/poker-beats-brags-variance/i-buy-software-allow-me-cheat-seeing-hole-cards-get-scammed-519855/
Those programs are a scam, and don't actually work. Anyone who tries to buy one deserves whatever they get imo.
Bots are often the subject of some pretty heated discussion, some people think they are going to eventually ruin online games. However, the major sites are constantly on the lookout for bots, and even if they go undetected, they're still easily exploitable. The best bots out there currently are able to play on par with the pros at heads up limit hold 'em, but that's it. They're nowhere near capable of beating limit games with three or more players, much less any no limit ring games. At 9:17 into this link, a highly respected limit hold 'em specialist explains why we don't have to worry about bots for a long time to come:
http://www.cardplayer.com/cptv/channels/8-the-scoop/poker-videos/3769-the-scoop-matt-hawrilenko-pt-1
I played for about 1 year and ran a freeroll winnings into 7k. I was the extremely disciplined money manager and moved up limits really slowly although that wasn't my play style. I had thoughts of trying to replace my income with it, but I couldn't get past the fact that I was providing next to no value and ultimately squashed the idea, because of that. Even though I loved the game and the challenge I knew that it wouldn't be fulfilling. I wonder if the author ever struggles with that question?
On a side note, the "poker is rigged" crowd always cracks me up. Sure there are sites that have done or do crappy stuff, but as a business model it just doesn't make sense. It seems like a more robust understanding of statistics and poker and some humility would probably cause the issue to evaporate.
Having played 100-150k hands casually, I saw nothing out of the ordinary. The billions of hand histories that are publicly available would destroy sites credibility when it comes to hot stacking the deck. The actual evidence is not there or at least I haven't seen it.
I think you would definitely have to have a certain mindset and risk taking sensibility to have poker be your career. For someone like me there is no way I could ever do that. I like having a solid income, insurance and other benefits provided by a full time job. To those that can do it, more power to you, but man, I can't see how it would be too much fun after a while.
As soon as I have enough passive income, I'm totally gonna try doing this for a while ;) Actually just heard back from my friend here and he JUST won a major pot!!! I won't give it away unless he's cool with it, but def. keep an eye out for the next guest post...will try and get it up within the next week or so.
Long Live Poker!
For the idiots who think the sites have no incentive to rig the games, it's really pretty obvious. In a tournament, the quicker it finishes the better because the site's take is fixed based on the tourney entry fees. The sooner a tourney finishes, the quicker someone can join another tourney and thus increase the site's take; more tourneys the better. For cash games, by rigging the cards to give several players strong hands you get more betting action, thus more rake for the house.
I think most people are saying not that poker sites have no incentive to rig the games, but that they have more incentive NOT to rig the games. When you consider how easy it would be to detect any significant statistical anomalies, you should realize it doesn't really make sense for poker sites to engage in that sort of practice.
LOL @ all morons saying online poker is rigged, I'm 23 yrs old, started playing 3 years ago, I've made 7 figures since then, yeah, online poker is totally rigged, I must be the chosen one
Round two is coming shortly...my man just won a $72k pot and will be releasing his forum name ;) Stay tuned...
The sooner a tourney finishes, the quicker someone can join another tourney and thus increase the site's take; more tourneys the better.
U guys saying poker is rigged are idiots. There are thousands of hands databases around with 500k hands or more that show that nothing is rigged. I have around 100k hands and there are no anomalies. Like somebody said Poker Sites already make a TON of money with a business that has huge returns with small costs. WHy would they risk that cash cow by being stupid an greedy? And wouldnt ppl notice the OBVIOUS difference between poker sites? There was already a case of a poker site being rigged and they got caught really fast by players.
Just look up for the Ultimate Bet scandal. Poker Sites CANT rig poker without getting caught, EVEN LESS with so many poker statistic programs around and so many players that do thousands and thousands of hands per day and can check stats for any anomaly. There are guys that have databases of more than 500k hands in Poker Tracker or holdem manager, they could easily see if the site were rigged.
I have been playing poker for 3 years, I really want to make a living while studying in the University with online poker. The main problem is that I always lost the bankroll control and finish putting all my money in only one table to gamble in high stakes. I know I'm a good player, but I don't have the mind to not loose my control and I want to grow my money faster. Always I begin winning money but in the long run someone takes all my money from me.
The problem is that I love high stakes games and my heart beating harder when I have a cash game with a thousand dollars pot.
I'm thinking to quit poker, because I think these feelings have something in common with gamble problems, I don't want to be a loosing addicted.
I have a 3000$ profit in poker because I have won a tourney of 5000$ and cash out the entire price. And because I always begin with 50€ grow my bank to 200$, 500$ or 800$ and then one night somethings wrong in my mind after some suckout hands, or days without growing my bank and I begin to gamble in high stakes, just to get back my money or to grow it faster. Sometimes I won for 2 or 3 days a lot more money than usually but at the end, all that money disapeares in a cash game of 5$/10$ game, when I usually play and win at 0.05$/0.10$.
I do not support the comment that playing poker for a living.It is not the best way to live buddy.
I play both live and online. You see more crazy stuff online because you get 3x times the hands you do in live play. I've seen crazy stuff in live play too. One night I saw the same guy get 3 full houses in a matter of an hour. You can make money online. When I'm patient and disciplined I always make money. When I get bored and go up in limits for no apparent reason I always loose money. You have to be properly bank rolled or you will loose consistently. For all of those who have a problem with it then don't play. Who cares. It's your money do what you want with it.
I agree with what poker rakeback said. There's still a lot of opportunities and options out there! You just have to look for those resources! Considering gambling as a source of living will just create guilt feelings inside.
Just look up for the Ultimate Bet scandal. Poker Sites CANT rig poker without getting caught, EVEN LESS with so many poker statistic programs around and so many players that do thousands and thousands of hands per day and can check stats for any anomaly. There are guys that have databases of more than 500k hands in Poker Tracker or holdem manager, they could easily see if the site were rigged.
Hey J - How much do you think the average Top 50 pro poker player makes? What about how much guys like Phil Ivey from sponsors like FTP?
Someone told me that "all" poker pros have gone broke once. What do you think about that?
Good question..if I had to guess I'd say the Top 50 make $1 million +, or at least have at one point in winnings - but that's a total guess ;) Everyone has their ups and their downs (more downs, I'd imagine) so I'd say they've all been broke at least once as well...
Maybe someone else could answer this better? I'd google it but too lazy right now.
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