Why are you asking about my salary again?
Are you my friend? Family? Are we helping each other out with our finances? If not, you're probably pissing me off :) Unfortunately I can't even say that with a straight face because I'm naturally happy! Haha...Seriously though, I'm all for open discussions on money, but you can't be a d-head and ask someone how much they make just because you feel like it.
That may sound weird coming from someone who posts up all their financial details for all to see, but I really feel there's a time and a place for stuff like this. The same goes for passwords & sex lives. Can you imagine if I just straight up ask you how many partners you've had? I'd be a total ass. You know what, that's how I should respond the next time someone butts in and asks me how much I make - "You wanna know my salary? Okay sure - but first tell me how many sluts you've slept with!" That would probably shut 'em up for a bit ;)
As far as I'm concerned, both parties have to trust each other before dishing out the goods. Just like with sex, there are appropriate and inappropriate times to talk turkey. (On a side note, you're always more than welcome to ask me anything! The beauty of being anonymous is that I can give you my opinion 100% without worrying about who's reading. I might not know the answer, but I'll always do my best to point you in the right direction either way.) So what are these "appropriate" and "inappropriate" times to ask about salaries? Well, keep on reading my friends...and keep in mind that these are MY own preferences, they may differ depending on who you ask:
Appropriate times to ask about my salary:
- We're in Human Resources. If you're my boss, VP, CEO, or any member of Human Resources, I'll gladly provide my salary to you (although you probably already know it, eh?)
- We're in a job interview. Ask away! You have the right to know so you can pay me more ;)
- You're my financial adviser/accountant. Obviously this is okay. If not, you'd probably be hiding something! haha...
- We've been talking about finances & helping each other out. And we're friends! That second part is key. I have nooooo problems at all talking openly with friends & family about salaries. Every now and then people ask for my opinion or what I wold do in a certain situation, so in this case sharing my financial background or salary may be important keys to the conversation. In this case, I'd happily give out the details.
- We're on this blog. Again, it's always cool here. It may not be on others' blogs - especially those who aren't as anonymous, but here it's a wide open door baby!
- I asked for yours first ;) This rarely happens outside of the above situation, but when it does I fully expect to be asked the same or to just give it out first to make both parties comfortable. The only time I can remember really doing this was when I was looking to join a friend's company and needed to know what I was dealing with before heading into an interview. There may be other times too when I was more naive, but regardless if I'm not willing to share my own salary with you, I'll never ask for yours in return.
Inappropriate times to ask about my salary:
- When we're not even talking about finances. Why would I tell you how much I make when we were talking about The Redskins killing me? What does it possibly have to do with them?
- When I don't now you. The worst is when someone gets all up in your face with 101 questions about what you make when you wouldn't even tell them your apartment number. People are crazy sometimes. I was once asked how much my paycheck came out to THREE whole minutes after meeting them! WTF? Come on now, that's just crazy.
- When we work together. Bosses/HR aside, I know what happens when the guy sitting next to you knows you make more than them (or less for that matter). Everything gets weird and emotions start piling up when the only thing that's changes was a number you told them. No sirree, been there done that. Try out GlassDoor.com if you have to, maybe you'll get lucky?
- When we're on the metro/train/plane/anywhere else with hundreds of people around. I might be cool with telling you, but not with all those eyeballs staring at us. I'm pretty shy about that, so please don't force it.
When all is said and done, I feel there's a right and a wrong way to ask about how much someone makes. Sometimes they'll give it to you, and others they won't. Just please, whatever you do, respect their decision either way. There's no praise in bullying someone out of their lunch money.
posted by J. Money at
8:02 AM
17 Comments:
You said it so well, tear.
I do wish there was a more open discussion about salary, though. Then maybe those feelings of over-confidence or jealousy can slowly subside. And maybe we can do away with the whole pay disparity thing based on race/gender. But I may be thinking too far ahead...
ha ha! That's awesome. here's an interesting correlary - "Don't tell me what you make unless..." I am in the awful position of knowing what my coworker makes because he TOLD me! He's a male (i'm not), he's got 15 more years experience in what we do than I have, though our job responsibilities & project outputs are the same, and he makes 1.75 more than me - yes, 175% more and participates at 200% my level in the bonus pool...so he could buy a car with his check while I could buy a motorscooter! Now, I'm excel savvy - I know on a rational/logical level that his salary is where I would be if I get between 3 and 5% raises for the next 15 years, but it doesn't make it easier to bear that his work is 'worth' 1.75X what mine is. Trying not to get a chip on my shoulder, and also wondering why coworker decided to share - what was he hoping to achieve by me knowing this? Hmmm.
I should say that those bonus checks were in 'good' years - this won't be one of them.
The topic of the next post. "My Net Worth Revealed". Many times, salary and net worth are not related. (i.e., Salary is high, net worth is low)
My friend told me and my boyfriend, who was having a hard time finding a job after almost a year of unemployment, that he was given an un-solicited job offer worth x amount of salary that he wasn't interested in accepting. X was a very large number compared to my bf's salary goal. My friend knew exactly how much challenge my bf was having w/ his job search.
The bf & I both didn't really say anything in response because we were so upset by our friend's utter lack of tact & politeness.
That said, how about we make it a two way street; don't ask, don't tell (w/out your above conditions, that make total sense)
@Investing Newbie - That would be nice! I'd be up for more open discussion of salaries if it didn't take place @ work. Even in a perfect world I feel like it would still screw stuff up :(
@Michelle - I hate that too! I think some people just like to give it out all willy nilly because a) it makes them look good, and b) they know they're making more than you. Not always, but at least in my experience. And oddly enough it's always a guy dishing it out - I have yet to come across a woman doing the same.
@SaveABunch - I'll agree with that. There are plenty of people i know making $100k+ but have a net worth below $0.00. Def. something to keep in mind, thanks for reminding us :)
@adriene crimson - TOTALLY! It's all about the ego trip for sure. Either that or they just don't use common sense. In any case, it leaves us upset and not wanting to have known in the first place.
I have mixed feelings about opening up the discussion about salary. First off, it seems terribly effed up for a CEO to make 400x (or whatever the figure is nowadays) what his/her employees make. Seems out of line to me.
On the other hand, your job as "the business of you" is to negotiate the best deal you can get and damn the torpedoes.
It's kind of like airplane tickets: Seated together, passenger A paid $300, passenger B paid $1000. It's about searching out the best deal, timing, luck, and most importantly, ABILITY. But all of those things factor in.
Kinda sad this has to be outlined, but I guess maybe there's some assumptions made when you blog about finances....
Ah, BS. Seriously, what's wrong with people? Now, we've been facilitating FPU for about 5 years, blogging about personal finance for nearly 2 years. I'm more than comfortable to talk about just about any area of our financial lives if you ask - but, I'm still not going to tell you what I make. Maybe in general terms, but not specifics.
It's not that I'm uncomfortable. It's not that I'm embarrassed. I just know that people get weird when they find out that number. Nothing will stir more gossip, judgment, and BS drama then finding out someone's salary. Well, the number of partners thing would be up there too...
Still, this had better be pretty relevant if you ask someone. For me, this question will be met with a long series of questions in response and to J's point, you likely won't want to answer them.
Whats the big deal if people know how much you make?
Do you get asked very often? I can't say many people ever ask what I make, unless it is to tell me I am underpaid compared to so and so. In general I find the whole money as taboo thing to be very much alive.
Anonymous asked what the big deal is. Well, for one thing, if people you hardly know are asking you this (and if people are asking you on the subway I assume they might not be your very closest friends or they would have already asked somewhere less public) people can start thinking you're "rich" and start hitting you up for "loans." It can get very dicey to have to explain to a friend why you'd rather not "help them out" again and again and again!
Hmm..My all my friends are pretty legit and know I'd help them out in a pinch, but they never ask for money. I guess its just the type of friends you choose to have. As for a hobo asking me, Id tell him to jump off a bridge.
One other place where your salary will be asked and you are bound to tell politely is when your girlfriend's father asks. Here you know that the old man in front of you will broaden his eyebrows but you cannot do anything other than cursing yourself that why you din not studied in college days.
@Miss M - No, I don't get asked that often, but when I do 9 times out of 10 it's a blunt question out of nowhere :(
I think it really comes down to the intentions of the person asking about it. Some do so to make them feel better, while others genuinely want to help. Or their just plain curious ;) As long as you bring it up in an appropriate setting and everyone feels comfortable talking about it, I don't see any problems.
Someone without a sense of boundaries must have gotten under your skin, huh?
It's a no-no at my employer to dicuss salary so I don't have to worry about it coming up there. I don't share my income with anyone except close family and my accountant. It's usually not relevant in any other circustance.
Two things should be clear - first, that it's rude to persist in questioning people about their own affairs when they make clear they don't want to answer. BUT - second - the tradition of salary confidentiality benefits ONE group of people: employers who don't want their employees to have leverage to ask for more money by finding out their colleagues make more money than they do.
What you choose to tell other people is your own business, and you shouldn't be judged or annoyed about it, particularly if you're afraid of freeloaders hitting you up for cash (although my experience has been that they don't need to know your paycheque to do that).
But remember that the social norm that salary talk is fundamentally rude was NOT created for your benefit. (Unless you're an employer whose pay scales aren't transparent and explainable on demand).
I supervise interns and talk about salary all the time. The interns don't know anything about negotiating a salary, they have absolutely no frame of reference for salaries in the professional world and I hate to see them get screwed by employers. I openly tell them about my salary and history so they can get at least one person's career/financial profile.
i'm pretty open with my friends and they share all sorts of info with me. i think we all share the belief that salary is NOT what a person is worth. Their paycheck does not indicate their value in the world.
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