Rob

Thanks guys,
-J$

My belief is that we’ll all be a lot better off when we can talk this stuff over as friends. I think John Bogle is a genius. I can say openly and enthusiastically that I have learned important things from hundreds of people who are big believers in Buy-and-Hold. How many Buy-and-Holders can say the same thing going the other way? Why not? Is it really possible that the people who came up with Buy-and-Hold discovered every last thing that we will ever know about investing?

I think not. Buy-and-Hold was a huge advance. I am grateful to all the people who taught us so much. But it is my sincere take that Bogle and all the others are flawed humans, like all the rest of us. They got a lot of stuff right, they got some important things very, very wrong. And we all should be trying to help them come to grips with this reality and to move forward to an appreciation of some better ideas.

That’s my sincere belief, in any event. Given that its my sincere belief, I believe that I am required in conscience to put it forward in all my writings and podcasts dealing with investing topics. I’ll continue to do so regardless of whatever intimidation tactics Carlyle and his Goon friends direct at me. And I will continue to urge Bogle and Monevator and all other responsible Buy-and-Hold advocates to disassociate themselves from the Goon element that purports to speak on “the same side.” These sorts of tactics make Buy-and-Hold look like something a lot worse than just a discredited investing approach.

Holy moly!

Rob

http://www.s152957355.onlinehome.us/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1189390571/4#4

It’s also interesting to note how Mr. Bennett demands that he be given unfettered access to express his views at any blog where he chooses to post but heavily censors opposing viewpoints at his own blog.

http://www.passionsaving.com/investing-discussion-boards.html

This is why we are experiencing an economic crisis today. We learned what really works in stock investing in academic research that was published 30 years ago. But we cannot talk about it because it hurts the feelings of some of those who have advocated Buy-and-Hold strategies for people to learn the realities. So large numbers continue to advocate what doesn’t work and millions suffer the financial consequences of not being able to learn about the realities (we learn by talking things over in civil and reasoned and friendly and warm discussions).

Heaven help us all!

Rob

That’s easy, Rob. It is always a relief to rid yourself of an incessant internet troll and idiot posing as something he is not.

That’s great to hear, Monevator. I believe that you don’t have hard feelings (I certainly do not either) and I thank you for the kindness.

Since I stopped allowing your comments, my blood pressure has subsided and I even had some readers thank me.

Yes — but why?

I’d be grateful if you and any others listening in here would give some thought to the “why?” question. What is it about hearing that valuations matter that causes people who believe in Buy-and-Hold to get so upset? We have people offer different viewpoints on lots of other question without people getting upset? Why does pointing out the flaws of Buy-and-Hold bother people so much?

My view is that it wouldn’t bother people if they were confident about their strategies. I want you and your readers to be confident about your strategies. So I want to help you challenge them and see if you can maintain confidence in them when they are challenged. If you cannot, I would like to see you change your strategies. If you maintain confidence in the face of challenges, maybe that will cause me to change mine — which of course would be a good thing if I am wrong.

I very much appreciate the tone of your comment here, Monevator. We obviously disagree. But we are talking here as friends, and that is as it should be. Here’s an idea that maybe you could pursue with some of the other bloggers. Would it be possible to have one blog that has some traffic where we could all meet to talk over these questions? It doesn’t do me any good to talk about this stuff only at my own blog if there is a gentleman’s agreement among all the big bloggers that no one will ever link to me and thus my words will never be seen by anyone. You say that you don’t want my comments clogging up your blog. What if we has one blog identified as the place where Buy-and-Holders and anti-Buy-and-Holders meet to discuss these questions. Over time, I think that some of the Buy-and-Holders might be won over enough to permit my comments on their blogs too. But they could dip their toes in the water a bit first at the designated “free posting” blog.

It is not my aim to hurt anyone’s feelings. My aim is to see to it that people somehow get to hear both sides of the story. 90 percent of the world today believes that Buy-and-Hold works. If we always decide things by majority vote, that is never going to change. If we want there to be some way for the new model to win support, we have to have a place that has traffic that people can go to to talk about it.

Any help that you (or anyone else reading these words) can offer to get something like that started up would be greatly appreciated, Monevator.

Rob

Thanks for your generous assessment of my writing. As you know, I think you’re a great writer on savings…

I don’t want to follow you around the Internet to discuss this ‘banning’ but as this post has a lot of comments, a bit of balance please.

I asked you not to keep commenting with the same variation about valuation-informed investing that you’d put on well over a dozen posts on Monevator. I felt you’d made your point.

You felt you needed to do so, so I began deleting those comments.

It’s not fair to say you didn’t get to say your piece — there’s dozens of comments from you on Monevator.

Since I stopped allowing your comments, my blood pressure has subsided and I even had some readers thank me. Nobody has asked for them back.

I have no ill-feelings — if you look at my Twitter stream just the other day I suggested someone read your blog for more on valuation informed strategies.

I just didn’t – and don’t! – want it clogging up my blog.

best
M.