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Are Protandim Pills a Scam?

by J. Money on Thursday, March 17, 2011

the pill gang
(The following is a guest post by personal finance blogger, Lazy Man and Money. Last year he shared his thoughts on how MonaVie is a scam, and today’s he’s back to dish on another Mulit-Level Marketing (MLM) product – Protandim)

J. Money contacted earlier this week and asked if I had anything juicy for a guest post. I try not to miss an opportunity to reach a new audience. So I agreed… as long as he comes back from SXSW with some good stories to share.

I’d like to introduce you today to LifeVantage Protandim. I was introduced to it from someone spamming from a mailing list. His first email was to convince me to buy into his MLM coin collecting business. Sign up for a subscription service and you’ll have coins shipped to you every month. Get enough others to sign up and you get your coin for free. It’s pretty much an unsustainable pyramid scheme because you usually have to recruit 10 to 20 more people to get your coin for free. Each person along the way typically overpays.

I decided to have a little fun and play his game. We chatted for a bit about the industry and how this coin collecting was great – you’d actually be building assets each month. Two weeks later, I got another email from him. He’s moving on from the coin collecting thing, and now wants to sell me Protandim. According to him, “Protandim is the only anti-aging supplement that is clinically proven in 6 university studies to reduce oxidative stress to the level of a 20 year old.” I remember thinking, “Of all the types of stress I have, oxidative is the least of my concerns.”

This got me curious. Why was he so down on the coin collecting business? He didn’t like building assets anymore? I can understand if he likes Protandim, but he could sell both, right? Nope. MLMs have non-competes, you can’t sell both coins and anti-aging pills. That makes about as much sense as a Charlie Sheen interview – without the “winning” aspect. What is this Protandim pill and is it really as special as this former coin salesman says?

A brief history of Protandim

Protandim was invented by Paul Myhill, who has an undergraduate degree in theology and a graduate degree in business. Back in late 2003, LifeLine Therapeutics (later renamed LifeVantage) announced that it had signed a deal with Ceremedix for the peptide CMX-1152 and it would be trademarked under the name Protandim. In April of 2004, the company announces that it would create a Protandim CF as it could get the version to market in a matter of months, while the CMX-1152 would take a year to bring to market. Protandim CF is a combination of 5 herbal ingredients (such as tumeric, green tea, and milk thistle) that you can buy from Amazon. In my Protandim article, I calculated that a consumer could spend about 34 cents and get three times the quantity of the ingredients as a $1.50 Protandim CF pill – and this is just buying off the shelf on Amazon. The CMX-1152 would never make it to market and future press releases pretended like it never existed. Ceremdix went out of business. The Protandim CF got shortened to Protandim and the company pushed forward.

In late 2004, Dr. Joe McCord took a 10% ownership in Protandim and he begins a clinical human trial on Protandim. In the June of 2005, McCord’s study is accepted for publication in the journal Free Radical Biology & Medicine (FRBM). FRBM is published by the Society of the Society for Free Radical Biology and Medicine of which Joe McCord was President from 1990-1992. He currently sits on the International Editorial Board of the journal. The human trial started with 29 subjects, but after 30 days was down to 20. After 120 days, there was data from only 10 subjects. No reason for the ommision of the data from the other subjects is provided. To this day, no further human trials on Protandim have been conducted.

In October of 2008, the company announced it would change the distribution model to network marketing (a pseudodym for MLM because MLM had garnered a poor reputation for being a scam). Around the same time, more studies were be published in FRBM about Protandim, these taking a step back from the human trials and involve rats and effects in test tubes.

In March 2009, Paul Myhill inventor of Protandim admits that they hired McCord because of his background, saying “Because the core composition came from a very unlikely source – me – we initially decided to hide that fact for marketing purposes and instead rely on the impeccable background of Dr. McCord.” In the same interview Myhill says, “Big Pharma (through its proxy, the FDA) doesn’t allow supplements to make any disease claims, I think it’s important for the scientific literature to make those claims for us. Most people can then make the connection and understand how Protandim can be a positive part of their health regime.”

Does Protandim really do what is claims?

To date, every published article of research has Joe McCord’s name on it – many of them in which there are no stated conflicts of interest. Myself and commenters on my blog, found that the grant money used to conduct some of the research was intended to study Protandim. In addition the company has questionable financial standing. It has been trading under a dollar since September of 2006 and is an over the counter stock. The market-capitalization is $52 Million (as of 3/4/2011). From a recent 10K Protandim pinned a lot of hopes on sale of tools to its distributors saying, “we began sales of kits, marketing materials and other sales aides to distributors in addition to the sales of Protandim.” It will need all the help it can get judging by the 3M they have in cash on the balance sheets and the negative numbers. Those seem like really low numbers for a truly revolutionary anti-aging product to me.

So I’m back to where I was with MonaVie, trying to fight the good fight in order to educate people about these scams. LifeVantage Protandim distributors argue with me each day, sometimes for hours. The saddest part is that these are the victims of these scams, and they don’t even know it. They end up spending thousands of dollars on product, tools, conferences, and end up with a business where 99% of people lose money. I could go on about Protandim, but this is probably too long for J. Money anyway. Plus, there’s a new MLM scam in town called One24 – it promises you retirement income in 24 months.

————–
Guest post by personal finance blogger, Lazy Man and Money. Thanks Lazy Man!
(“The Pill Gang” photo by Yannick_Bammert)


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{ 348 comments… read them below or add one }

1 CoffeeCents March 17, 2011 at 9:07 am

I would love to see you look at Visalus, another health diet MLM

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2 CityFlips March 17, 2011 at 11:36 am

Ooh! I do love to fight a good scam!

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3 Matt March 17, 2011 at 1:39 pm

I want to see a write up on Herbalife, another MLM. Anyone know of an article already out there on them?

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4 Stephen March 17, 2011 at 4:22 pm

i found his one24 post better reading than this.

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5 dee dee March 17, 2011 at 8:34 pm

Can anybody comment on Eniva products? My brother-in-law is trying to sell this line to EVERYONE he encounters

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6 Lazy Man and Money March 17, 2011 at 9:15 pm

CoffeeCents,

I haven’t looked at Visalus. In fact, I’ve never heard of it. In general, I’ve become skeptical about any MLM product tied towards health. There’s a lot of room for people to make claims on an placebo effect.

Matt,

In my MonaVie article a lot of people have talked about HerbaLife in the comments. That’s how Dallin Larsen got involved in MLM, meeting the CEO of HerbaLife. It’s another company that I haven’t really spent any time looking at. I only look at the things that people bring to my door.

Stephen,

I’m glad you liked the One24 article. That was kind of like shooting fish in the barrel with the FTC statements pretty cut and dry it is an illegal pyramid scheme. The Protandim one is a little more hidden because they hired a reputable figurehead.

Dee dee,

I looked at Eniva briefly before their website tried to crash my browser. The products looked pretty expensive and not a particularly good value for the money. That was one of the first things that I found with MonaVie, Protandim, and One24. In general the mentality is to get people like your brother-in-law brainwashed into buying these products on a regular basis, called autoship. If that sounds like Eniva, I would run away.

Finally, the Charlie Sheen joke might have been more timely ten days ago when I wrote the article. Oh well.

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7 J. Money March 19, 2011 at 2:10 pm

haha… Is Charlie Sheen not trending anymore? You should have heard everyone at SXSW – EVERY SINGLE PANEL had some mention of him, was crazy…. of course, the more I drank, the more I spouted out the nonsense too ;) And when I say “drank” I meant beer. Not Monavie…. although I wonder if that makes for a good mixer?

Thanks for guest posting my brotha!

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8 Jason March 19, 2011 at 7:52 pm

All those pills that they say work miracles are scams, and dangerous too. It’s not good for your health. You’re messing with your homeostasis.

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9 invoice March 21, 2011 at 11:10 am

There are numerous articles in the internet questioning Protandim if it is real or hype. May people say they felt better after taking it, some say nothing happens.Maybe it’s great for some, but for many it has been an answer to pains and diseases they’ve dealt with for some time.

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10 John April 26, 2011 at 1:36 pm

Why doesn’t everyone READ!!! Not opinions, READ the facts, READ the peer-reviewed clinicals, READ the http://www.nasdaq.com reports (LFVN) that totally validates the credibility and the validity of the science behind Protandim (www.pubmed.gov is the government’s website were you can find out about Protandim) and the 40 years of research that has used YOUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS to fund it. By the way, if you don’t believe what you read, I don’t want you to waste my air in your body… Don’t take Protandim because it can’t fix stupid.

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11 Dale April 29, 2011 at 12:02 pm

John….
First, just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean you should be mean and insult them…

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20740052 …I read the report…the studies where on mice…not humans. I’m happy for the mice…but where are the human studies?

Also, Nasdaq isn’t someplace I’d go to validate my medical needs…it just shows that the company is profitable (or not and why) on paper…but then again they also showed that Enron was as well.

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12 John April 29, 2011 at 12:32 pm

LOL! Dale. I would like you to go volunteer for the heart attack study… thanks. If that’s mean, get over it. Everyone is too damn sensitive these days. What I am saying to all intelligent creatures: GO READ! Stop listening to opinion. Turn off the TV and READ. If that’s mean, then, I guess I need to sign up for an un-mean course at the school of “give-me-something-for-nothing-and-I-have-no-intelligence” university.
BTW, the links that I suggested, and that you invalidated, were to show you that other intelligent life on this planet are saying, “Hey, this is valid science, I think I’ll invest.”
The other links just validate that YOUR taxpayer dollars were spent on an all-natural ‘supplement’ and it was PROVEN to reduce oxidative stress by as much an average of 40 percent in all mammals, 100 percent of the time, with no side effects. Thanks to your taxes, we now have something that is addressing the ROOT CAUSE of malfunctioning cells and not just putting a band-aid on the symptoms.
Dale, you can reach me anytime for some fun-loving bantering. I’m sorry if you take this personal, I was laughing the whole time, please forgive me. I am having a wonderful time watching people recover from many, many problems. I do get verbose and it comes across as insulting when I ask people to just read. Do their own true research. Find out the true facts. Skepticism can only get you so far in this country, it invokes fear; fear to explore, fear to have faith, fear to understand… and then on the other hand, we trust people to tell us what to do with our own health?
You seem like a great guy and I would love to show you all of my data that confirms what I have discovered in the most incredible, validated product I’ve ever seen…
Have a Blessed Day,
John Bowers

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13 Catherine May 1, 2011 at 12:09 am

This whole Protandim “scam” thing is ridiculous. First of all, if you don’t like network marketing (a.k.a. MLM, so be it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not an amazingly powerful supplement. (Fyi, Protandim originally sold in health food stores before going the direct sale route.) Dr. McCord studied oxidative stress, what Protandim virtually eliminates, for 40 years of his life. If he’s behind this supplement, you can bet there is something to it (and it’s not just supporting it b/c he’s paid to). As far as being able to get the five herbs in Protandim for less money, you didn’t hear the whole truth from the guest poster . . . Protandim was actually issued a patent because the five herbs in its formula are proven to be 18 times more powerful than they are alone. (That’s why you pay more for Protandim than you do for the five herbs.) There are now 7 published studies on Protandim. All are viewable at http://www.pubmed.gov. Many were independently funded and researched. Does Protandim work?! Absolutely! . . ; How does all day stamina sound? How about my clients’s horse that went on one Protandim/day and is no longer going lame? How about my client with fibromyalgia who can now function again because of Protandim? The list goes on and on. I’m a proud distributor of Protandim. Please check out my website to learn more at http://www.cudiscovery.com. Thanks.

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14 Dave May 6, 2011 at 7:43 pm

Here’s a neutral question to debate. Has any MLM product continued to make its “distributors” money for 5 or 10 years after its peak launch? I mean money, not a couple bucks a month.
Here’s another one, for you “distributors” What would happen if all of you did your job to the fullest success and everyone and their mother became a distributor as well as on an auto ship? I’ll tell you now cause your still thinking about all that money and how great it would be. WRONG. It would collapse like a house of cards. Then the same people will start another amazing product for you to be their soldier for.(Yes “soldier”, because you will die to support the agenda of the leaders)
Lets face it, humans are creatures of habit who get bored, but if it wasn’t for the urge to change that stimulates us to evolve into the future, we would already be extinct from doing the same thing. In other words, humans will not continue to do the same thing the same way or take the same product for years to come, especially at $40 / month. MLM’s are fads that come and go. They are an easy get rich quick process that only the top 10 benefit. The other 999,999,990 are the soldiers. Where do you think you will be? HUGE odds are against you right out of the gate. It’s your money and time…..Spend it wisely or someone else will.

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15 John May 6, 2011 at 8:29 pm

There simply is no debate. Protandim is real. LifeVantage is the ONLY network marketing company that pays it’s distributors for their efforts. I have a 94 percent customer retention rate in my business because the product is real. and again, to any person that is skeptical, good. you missed the boat. go to http://www.pubmed.gov and do your own research or listen to a lazy man talk about money (that he doesn’t have)…

Protandim is the best product to hit the streets of America since the light bulb. We all need that, right? or not…

This will be my final post on this time-consuming battle of wits with unarmed people.

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16 Doug May 11, 2011 at 12:18 am

First I want to say I’m a distributor for protandim. That being said, I have had mixed feelings about the product. I’ve been told from other distributors of the remarkable effects on their customers, and I was eager/anxious to get it to my loved ones and friends. I have had some positive feedback and some negative.
First the positive: I’ve had two customers that can go up and down stairs one leg at a time where they couldn’t before, stamina from a few while walking in stores and around the house, one got off pain medicine for her daily walking job, my dad is off his high blood pressure medicine, and a couple telling me of their arthritic pains in their hands and feet going away!
Now the negative: No one’s diabetic levels have dropped even after five months, everyone has had some kind of sickness while taking protandim like a common cold or the flu…not saying it caused it but it didn’t prevent it, no one with high cholesterol has had a reduction in their levels even after trying to wing themselves off, and about half or more feel no effects at all… including myself…but that doesn’t mean it’s not working!?
I’m kind of on the fence with this. It seems like it does help some, but not much if at all for others. I’ve felt really good telling some about it, and I’ve felt like a lying crook to others… after their pains and/or illnesses still remain. Still, protandim doesn’t claim to cure anything, but to simply reduce oxidative stress which is the root to nearly every disease, and most negative effects to our bodies including aging! Thought I’d comment.

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17 J. Money May 11, 2011 at 5:26 pm

Hey, thanks for the honesty! Really appreciate you sharing it with us :)

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18 Dave May 11, 2011 at 7:58 pm

Well John, If there’s no debate, I hope you are making honest money by not leading people on with false promise. ( I see Doug above is an honest man. ) I hope the countless hours you spend speaking and working for your leaders 7 digit income serves you well. Have you ever added up all the hours you have spent and divided them by the all the money you’ve made?
I also hope in 10 years you look back and share the insight about MLM’s to the 99% of people that fail and fall victim as you did.
I think only a lazy man would join an MLM because he does not know how to roll up his sleeves and do some real work. That’s why they ‘re called “get rich quick” schemes.
Good Luck

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19 John May 12, 2011 at 11:34 pm

TODAY, FROM OUR CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER:
“LifeVantage is more than “just” a company; it’s more than a business relationship. Our relationships with one another extend beyond down lines and organizations; we’re a family.

We recently lost a valued member of the LifeVantage family, Cindi Padgett. Cindi is a part of the heart and soul of this company, and when we lose a family member, we grieve. In times of difficulty, we rally together and move forward. Organizations continue to grow even during very difficult times. As I attended Cindi’s services in Texas, I was reminded of this—and also that this business goes beyond life and death. It’s a legacy.

We believe in creating and living your own legacy now, and all along the path to success, not simply waiting to achieve success before attempting to make a difference in the world for the better. Out of what we create, and live, our legacy will live on.

We’re better people because of Cindi Padgett and the many other special relationships we enjoy with one another as members of the LifeVantage family. How grateful I am for that and for each of you.

All The Best,

—Kirby”

That is a corporate-wide communication. That’s what our Chief Operating Officer thinks. He is a corporate executive speaking about a distributor and her family, our extended family. She passed away just before Mother’s Day.

There is no “get rich quick” scheme here. If anything, it is a “Get Healthy and Wealthy” plan of action. You’re right, Dave, this may not be for you. You’ve been spoiled by the scams of the past, the old model of unsuccessful companies and you’ve been burned by a lady selling plastic containers to your wife; maybe your wife got burned trying to sell make-up…

In our organization, my wife and I have a 65 percent success rate (success to us right now is over $200/week to each distributor) and it increases every day. With the right product and the right company, I’m half-way to retirement in 6 short months. Seriously. More importantly, we will help more than 100 of our distributors retire or have the option to retire within the next 18 months… Does Network Marketing work for everyone? No. Especially for the socialist who wants to be provided for–who is too afraid to get off his couch and take a risk. This is a business model taught at Harvard Business School. It works, but requires YOU to work. You are your own boss. You are the cornerstone of our great country because YOU are a business owner.

If you want to get beyond the hate of “MLM” bashing, you should go to http://www.truehope.biz and watch the investigative report that ABC Primetime aired. They uncovered the truth. It’s only 9 minutes, Dave. Maybe, just maybe you can see the vision and real opportunity that is before your very eyes. More importantly, maybe you will help someone get beyond a health problem and give you an uncomfortable “Power Hug” for introducing them to Protandim… I cash those checks EVERY DAY. It’s more than a paycheck with dollar signs attached… It is Maslow’s hierarchy of needs coming to fruition: Self-Actualization.

“There are those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who wonder what happened…” Which one are you, Dave?

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20 John May 13, 2011 at 2:15 pm

To all doubters: Here is my actual check register of individual checks that has been paid to me weekly and monthly. I’ve done this part time… these results are not typical and do not represent what you may get paid. The disclaimer is simple: You can earn more or less than I have depending on your ability and effort…

Amount Paid
US$893.28 This Week
US$50.00
US$260.00
US$260.00
US$82.00
US$722.00
US$740.52
US$260.00
US$50.00
US$260.00
US$354.99
US$260.00
US$180.00
US$66.00
US$151.78
US$82.00
US$82.00
US$0.00
US$260.00
US$360.00
US$160.47
US$310.00
US$114.00
US$420.00 WEEK 1

Your Honor, I Rest My Case!
There is no debate. Get on my team: http://www.truehope.biz
Click on the “More Information” button
Help me help you and your contacts save lives physically AND financially.

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21 Chris Jones May 17, 2011 at 12:00 am

Lazy Man and Money _ I would have to say your name explained why you failed in MLM. MLM is not a get rich quick even though some bad apples make it out to be that way.
Like most opportunities out there most people fail because they don’t want to do the work. For instance a customer service operation I use to work for top end pay was $24 hour and full benefits. 24 of us started after 5 years there was only 3 left. That is a pretty high failure rate and it was great pay and benefits! Guess what there is high failure rate everywhere its all because people want the easy money and leave when they find out there is work involved. As you can see a regular job is no different from the MLM. You get out what you put in. Being Lazy will never make you successful, except now I have wrote some content for your website which by you starting a Controversial issue has gotten you free content written by many people ( and excellent lazy man approach two thumbs up to you lazy man)

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22 Nathan May 19, 2011 at 6:42 am

I couldn’t sleep so I started reading blogs… I am a distributor for lifevantage. I made $1234.89 my first month… only worked 8 hours! Hahaha I LOVE protandim! I’ve tried other mlm companies but lifevantage offers something that the other companies didn’t…. a true product…. john u are the man hahaha nice way of shutting every “hater” up. Hope to meet u one day at an elite convention cuz that’s were ill be soon

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23 John May 19, 2011 at 3:29 pm

Nathan, You are a rockstar! You will continue to have success in LifeVantage and from experience, I know it will grow exponentially. Whatever you are doing, keep doing it. Thank you for being honest. It’s too often people in America feel that everything is bad. They listen to Constantly Negative News (CNN) and don’t focus on what is really important: their family. Their ‘why’ isn’t significant enough to want more. Nathan, my wife and I will take you to dinner from the spoils of all the people that are getting healthy from taking Protandim. Actually, if I sent an email to all of our customers asking their permission to go to dinner on the money earned from them, they’d probably offer to buy our dinner for us! I can’t say we treat, prevent, or cure any disease; what I can say is we have been blessed by giving Protandim to over 30 cancer survivors, 100 heart patients and myriad others with diabetes. ALL of them are having positive results! God Bless Protandim! If you bring your wife or girlfriend, let’s go to Disneyland together. We just achieved Pro 5 and are amazed at what LifeVantage is doing for so many families, ours included. If we can help in any way, please don’t hesitate to ask.

Anyone reading this blog want to go to Disneyland in July? I will buy your ticket to go with us… that’s putting my money where my mouth is; however, I will require something from you: a list of 40 of your personal contacts that I can call on your behalf that are suffering from disease. I just want them to see this the way we saw it.
Thanks for reading.
J.Money, get involved and change your life. “Talking” about helping people is not the same as helping people. Put your heart where your website is and start helping people recover from disease.
John Bowers, LifeVantage Independent Distributor, Pro 5
928.310.1763 seethemsmile@gmail.com

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24 J. Money May 19, 2011 at 10:38 pm

I prefer to talk about helping people AND helping people – I do it every day, baby ;) We all have our own ways, just like you. Check out LoveDrop.us and/or all the comments on these posts (this one’s a bit different since it’s a guest one, but the point remains the same — opening up discussions helps people learn and get motivated).

I got no hate for y’all. I’m just not convinced about the product, that’s all.

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25 Maggie September 15, 2013 at 3:39 pm

I continue to be amazed by this discussion. Thank you J Money for your honest, educated, grammatically correct conversation about this new miracle pill “Protandim.” I was approached by one of the “soldiers” to try this amazing, wonderful, miracle cure. After reading and reading and reading, looking at the 2005 (that’s 8 years old now) ABC Live It clip, talking to the distributor, reading and reading some more, it appears that Protandim is very much like so many of the other “miracles” out there: Shakley, Amway, ASEA, HerbaLife, doTerra, Young Living, NuSkin, Mary Kay, Silpada, Premier, Cookie Lee, Tupperware, and the list goes on and on. They are all MLM scams where the top 10-20 people make a LOT of money, and the rest are the “soldiers” who do all of the work. I’ve found that many of these faithful have been down and out, lost a job, have no education to lean on, have had some type of life trauma, and this opportunity is the answer to their prayers, so they jump on board and get all of their family and friends to buy in so they can make a living. Hmm. Seems to be a pattern here – get rich quick? Yes, the payckecks come in until, like you said, they get tired of the rat race and give up and go on to something else. Protandim might in fact help some people – but for $50 per bottle for a one month supply? And if you sign up three people who each sign up three people and on and on, and you see a paycheck when you haven’t had one in a while, I’m sure it seems like a miracle cure. More for your bank account than your body? Whatever it is, there seems to be a common thread. When I read posts by enthusiastic dealers who cannot write or spell correctly, it makes me suspect. Not unlike the great church leaders (the good Rev. Ted Haggard??) who have all of the answers for everyone else, yet the rules don’t apply to them? They prey on the weak, uneducated, and unaware, and laugh all of the way to the bank. Enough said.

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26 Lazy Man and Money May 20, 2011 at 1:11 pm

I should note that everyone supporting Protandim here is a distributor: John Bowers, Catherine Workman (as she admitted), and Doug (as he admitted), Chris Jones. That should tell you a thing or two about their bias.

I saw a number of lies and misconceptions here. I’d like to clear up some of them.

Protandim hasn’t been around for 40 years to have 40 years of research behind it. It is five natural ingredients like green tea that have been around thousands of years.

I have not seen any evidence that tax dollars are used on the studies. If this evidence exists please support it. Studies on Pubmed do not count as it is an aggregator of published journals. It would be like saying my tax dollars are going to Charles Dickens because there’s a copy of The Christmas Carol in the Library of Congress.

As author of this guest post, I’d like to mention that I have more than 670 comments on my article on the topic. In those comments the studies are well discussed in much more depth than they have been here. If you want to discuss them further please come to my site and we’ll get into it.

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27 Maggie September 15, 2013 at 3:42 pm

Keep up the good work – love reading your posts on this subject. It’s amazing how many people want to believe in something too good to be true – didn’t we all learn that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is when we were about 5? It’s all about the almighty dollar. Sad.

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28 Lazy Man and Money May 20, 2011 at 1:14 pm

Catherine said,

“Protandim was actually issued a patent because the five herbs in its formula are proven to be 18 times more powerful than they are alone. “

I will quote Dr. Harriett Hall:

The second study listed above really intrigues me. They tested the individual components and apparently established that there was a marked synergism when the ingredients were combined. If this is true, it is unusual and deserves further investigation. In general, mixing natural medicines has produced additive but not synergistic effects, despite the claims of naturopaths that synergistic effects are common and are a basic principle of herbal medicine.

I haven’t seen any further testing done. Something as extensive as this should be addressed in large scale studies.

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29 Lazy Man and Money May 20, 2011 at 1:31 pm

Chris Jones,

Just like every other MLM proponent, you presumed that I faiiled in MLM without knowing the facts. I haven’t participated in MLM. Most MLM proponents make a claim that others didn’t do the work and that’s why they failed. My sister site has a great article, It’s Not a Matter of Effort, it’s a Mathematical Certainty, showing that it’s not about the work. The mathematics behind MLM ensures the high failure rate.

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30 Dave May 20, 2011 at 2:23 pm

OMG, This pill is a dietary supplement. Not a miracle drug. You can buy the same five ingredients separately (i.e. Swanson Vitamins) and take them together for about 95% less cost than you distributors are paying on your auto ships every month. Let me guess, you have been programmed to answer that with “this is a special formula with alot of research behind it” .
Your bottle says “proprietary blend”. Do you know what that means? Its not measured exactly, they don’t have to guarantee specific amounts. Meaning each pill could vary batch by batch.
Wow! You guys are brainwashed. All I can say is your leaders are excellent marketers. I would be interested in their next promo to make some money before that house of cards falls like this one will. These distributors here are sounding scared. Time must be running out.
The old saying stands “There’s a sucker born every minute”

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31 John May 21, 2011 at 11:10 am

Dave, you are right. Protandim is not a miracle drug. Protandim is listed as a supplement although it does not supplement one of the 2800+ calories of the human diet. NOT ONE. We have to have that categorization right now. You cannot go and buy ANY vitamin that does what Protandim does. You can not buy the herbs and try to concoct your own version of Protandim, hence 3 patents on our SPECIFIC blend (recipe, if you want)

PLEASE go read.

PLEASE go to a site, http://www.bigbluecalendar.com and on the right side are the peer-reviewed studies (for free) or go get the abstracts on Protandim from http://www.pubmed.gov (that’s an unbiased repository where all published medical journals are digitally stored) PLEASE take them to your physician, to ANY medical professional, MD, PhD, PA, or RN and have them evaluate the clinicals. THEY will tell you what I’ve already said in the upper blog: Protandim is a medical breakthrough.

Yes, I’m a sucker. I am a sucker who is suc-ceeding with LifeVantage. I wasn’t a success 6 months ago. I couldn’t pay my mortgage (4 months behind), couldn’t even buy wood to heat my home. Feeding 3 teen-ager’s milk and cereal every day was a monumental stress… Today. I’m far from easy-street. BUT, My wife and I just decided that if Protandim was real, we could apply our entrepreneurial spirits to it and make it a go, just like all business owners do. They decide they’ve had enough of a bitchy boss, a cunning corporate downsize, an unstable economy. Instead of trying to get a piece of everyone’s pie, we’ve chosen to make our own pie(s). The icing on the cake is my brother-in-law, Curtis, has recovered from Hepatitis C (received from a blood transfusion after a hunting accident), my mother’s diabetes is in remission; my father-in-law’s arthritis is all but gone… are these clinical trials about Protandim? Hell no. These are my reality. This is the reality behind the science.

Let me ask y’all this: WOULD YOU WANT TO WAIT 10 YEARS TO HAVE A DOCTOR TELL YOU PROTANDIM IS REAL, OR WOULD YOU WANT TO SEE RIGHT NOW IF YOUR FAMILY COULD BENEFIT FROM IT? Ask my father that died of cancer 18 months ago if Protandim could have helped be a chemosensitizer and chemoprotector at the same time, something oncologists have believed was not possible for 40 years… Oh, that’s right. I can’t ask my father who died of cancer. He’s dead. Protandim has been around since 2003, the science behind Protandim has been around since 1969. No doctors were telling anyone about Protandim because it wasn’t known until recently. Protandim is a breakthrough that reduces oxidative stress 40 to 70 percent in every mammal 100 percent of the time!!! This is not a marketing scheme, these are HARD FACTS. There is no “leader” telling me what to say. I READ THE CLINICALS! I TOOK THEM TO MY ONCOLOGIST. I TOOK THEM TO MY CARDIOLOGIST. If you dispute these facts and you don’t have a medical degree, please don’t offer an opinion. You aren’t entitled to one until you READ!

AGAIN, Please just read the clinicals from Louisiana State University , Ohio State University, Florida State University, Virginia Commonwealth University, Harvard Medical School, etc. ad nausea… We have 7, count them, SEVEN, peer-reviewed clinical studies supporting Protandim and its effects on oxidative stress in mammals. We have 26 more coming in the next few months/years!! Oh, and the Dept of Defense just commissioned a $10 million dollar study on Protandim…

Oh, please pay close attention to who sponsored those trials. Very important to know that YOU DID, Reader!!! Yes, your tax payer money, in association with the American Heart Association, National Institutes of Health, Juvenile Diabetes Association, etc., etc., paid for these studies on PROTANDIM! An all-natural supplement!

Wow! The world was once thought flat…imagine that. Disease was once thought caused by poisonous air… Heavier-than-air objects could not fly… The facts speak for themselves. I have been to verbose. Go read. Then call me. Nobody will because this is an anonymous way of bashing good people with pure hearts. By the way, when you find out that Protandim actually does what it says and you want to help your family, please get it directly from the company @ http://www.lifevantage.com That way I can be sure that my integrity is in tact by not profiting from this diatribe and debate. Thanks for reading

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32 Lazy Man and Money May 21, 2011 at 5:39 pm

John Bowers posted a heart-felt message from the COO Kirby Zenger about the death of LifeVantage distributor Cindi Padgett. It is worth noting that Zach and Cindy Padgett appear to be Elite-Pro 7 or 8 (if you believe the URL) distributors… ones near the very top. In addition Zach and Cindy Padgett were the contact people for when Kirby Zenger spoke – just about 6 weeks ago. My point here is that John painted this as a typical situation – that the COO cares about every distributor. Not every LifeVantage “family” member receives this kind of treatment. It’s a good gesture, but nothing particularly noteworthy considering the working relationship they had.

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33 Lazy Man and Money May 21, 2011 at 5:39 pm

John suggested that Network Marketing is taught at Harvard Business School. I have seen many MLMers claim it and it is your classic false rumor. It is so common that there are pages for it here, and here, and here. That last one has a reference of the Wall Street Journal back in 1995 where it said it had grounds for defamation along with the quote “This claim is harder to kill than a dandelion.” Guess it is harder than a dandelion if people like John are still spreading it 16 years later.

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34 Lazy Man and Money May 21, 2011 at 5:40 pm

The Harvard rumor is one of the big issues with MLM. Someone makes up a rumor, it sounds good and leads to sales so it spreads. It’s like the classic high school rumor that starts out with two people holding hands and by the end of the day, the rumor is the kind of stuff that would make Jenna Jameson block her ears.

John also mentioned the ABC Primetime special and suggested that they “uncovered the truth.” Yet what he didn’t mention is that it ran 6 years ago. It’s not even clear if that was done on the CMX-1152 version of Protandim or the new formulation that is available today that we put together by the company in a few short months when their distribution deal for CMX-1152 was pulled. It also begs the question, “why has no other news organization picked up the story since?”

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35 Lazy Man and Money May 21, 2011 at 6:22 pm

John Bowers said,

“Dave, you are right. Protandim is not a miracle drug. Protandim is listed as a supplement although it does not supplement one of the 2800+ calories of the human diet. NOT ONE. We have to have that categorization right now. You cannot go and buy ANY vitamin that does what Protandim does. You can not buy the herbs and try to concoct your own version of Protandim, hence 3 patents on our SPECIFIC blend (recipe, if you want)

Umm, John, you can buy the herbs and build your own version. I show you how to do it on my article about Protandim. I think I need to look into the patents on the “specific blend” because I didn’t think you patent recipes. This is why Coca-Cola and KFC keeps their recipes secret. I realize that Lifevantage has patents, but it is worth looking into. There are a lot of crazy patents out there.

At the same time it is worthing bringing up that a milligram or two of each ingredient wouldn’t significantly change the product. It’s not like 501mg of vitamin C is that much different than 500 of vitamin C. This applies the same way with green tea extract or tumeric. There isn’t anything magical about the exact formulation. Anyone can legally copy it with irreleveant differences. I venture they would if the product had any relevance in the scientific community outside of LifeVantage… and it doesn’t seem like that interest is there.

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36 Lazy Man and Money May 21, 2011 at 6:25 pm

I apologize for my spelling and grammar in the comments above. I had fixed them, but J. Money’s spam filter made me repost and I didn’t get the fixes in there.

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37 Lazy Man and Money May 21, 2011 at 6:40 pm

John Bowers said,

“My wife and I just decided that if Protandim was real, we could apply our entrepreneurial spirits to it and make it a go, just like all business owners do. They decide they’ve had enough of a bitchy boss, a cunning corporate downsize, an unstable economy. Instead of trying to get a piece of everyone’s pie, we’ve chosen to make our own pie(s).”

Well I’m a little bit flattered. I brought you to the right place. Please read this website. All the information you need is here. J. Money has written about it time and time again. Both J. Money and I have had enough with bitchy bosses, cunning corportate downsizing and an unstable economy. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that’s part of what his website is about.

That premise of not trying to be a piece of everyone’s else pie to make my pie is exactly what my website is about. However, MLM is not the answer. It pushes you up while you bring others down… Here is the classic example.

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38 Lazy Man and Money May 21, 2011 at 7:09 pm

John Bowers,

In addition your quote:

“The icing on the cake is my brother-in-law, Curtis, has recovered from Hepatitis C (received from a blood transfusion after a hunting accident), my mother’s diabetes is in remission; my father-in-law’s arthritis is all but gone… are these clinical trials about Protandim? Hell no. These are my reality. This is the reality behind the science.”

Your comments fail section 8.11.2 of the LifeVantage agreement (which follows). As a distributor (which you’ve verified you are) you are in violation of the following with your comments about Hepatitis C, diabetes, and arthritis….

8.11.2 – Product Claims

No claims, which include personal testimonials, as to therapeutic, curative or beneficial properties of any products offered by LifeVantage may be made except those contained in official LifeVantage materials. In particular, no Independent Distributor may make any claim that LifeVantage products are useful in the cure, treatment, diagnosis, mitigation or prevention of any diseases or signs or symptoms of disease. Not only are such claims violations of LifeVantage policies, but they potentially violate federal and state laws and regulations, including the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act and Federal Trade Commission Act.”

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39 Nathan May 21, 2011 at 9:11 pm

Someone give lazy man a protandim. It may cure his ignorance

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40 John May 22, 2011 at 5:20 pm

Sue me. I apologize if you took anything as “…a claim that LifeVantage products are useful in the cure, treatment, diagnosis, mitigation or prevention of any diseases or signs or symptoms of disease.” I mistakenly did not include: “I’m not supposed to tell you that the icing on the cake is…” My bad; there is my disclaimer. It still doesn’t change my reality. It might distrupt yours, but, thanks for checking into LifeVantage. Wow. Lazy Man can read, that’s good. Now go read the peer-reviewed published journals. You won’t because they are real, conclusive, proving everything I said already.

The science is real.
Protandim is real.

I will not be responding to ignorance any further, ESPECIALLY after baring my proof.
It is not refutable. There is no debate, again. Protandim can’t fix stupid.

By the way, after checking with my attorney, he laughed. This is a private blog, I can call you any name I want, say anything I want and opine on any subject I want to. As a LifeVantage Distributor, I still have an opinion, I still have the hard facts. I could care less what a socialist Lazy Man thinks of the industry that Warren Buffet claims is “…The best investment I ever made.” When Robert Kiyosaki, a multi-multi millionaire states that Network Marketing is THE business of the 21st Century, I will fly with eagles while Lazy Man will still be sitting on the couch, watching porno’s, drinking a beer, calling everyone liars and giving his diarrhea-induced conclusions to an unsuspecting audiences tomorrow at this time; whereas my wife and I will have a blast, helping people get beyond their physical and financial stresses.

To all disbelievers: you won’t get it anyway.

This business is beautiful. With LifeVantage, it’s done right. Again, Thank You Dr. McCord. Thank You LifeVantage.
John Bowers, Pro 5 LifeVantage Independent Distributor

This is a financial blog, so, if you want MORE finances, give me a call or drop me a line.

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41 Dave May 23, 2011 at 8:14 pm

John, What kind of company would charge you over $500 for you to sell “their” product? Oh yeh, sorry forgot they gave you overpriced pills. Good deal. What kind of a company makes you sign up for an auto shipment? If the products work so good, you should want more. It shouldn’t be forced on you. It should be on retail shelves. Oh yeh it was. (That didn’t work either.)
Now think for a minute John. You seem like a smart guy. (A little brainwashed, but still smart) Don’t feel bad I’ve let a few women brainwash me too. But that’s another thread. Anyhow, you agree it was sold on shelves years ago, right? And I’ll go as far to agree with you that it had to help some people out there. Not sure with what, but I’m sure someone swore by it like you do. So here’s the $100k question. Where are these people’s testimonies? They have been taking it all this time, I’m sure they have something to say.
Think about it man, they don’t take it anymore. They realized it does nothing, especially for the price.
If your company was so giving they would cut out all these multilevel payouts and be able to sell it for 10 times less. Now that would be helping people. I feel sorry for you and your family. Try selling something people want, not something over priced that you have to convince is good when everyone is a skeptic. You mean well, but you are being taken by these millionaire monsters. Your little business will not be around in 3 years. You will lose friends and family in the mean time. Go open a nice little business and make an honest living giving people what they want, not what you want. That’s a business!
Good Luck!

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42 Lazy Man and Money May 23, 2011 at 8:51 pm

John Bowers,

It is very simple. You, as a paid representative of LifeVantage, can’t claim the product to have any medicinal benefits that haven’t been proven by the FDA. It is very straight-forward. You are illegally marketing the product. It is little surprise that you are a Pro 5 LifeVantage Distributor when your recruiting and sales are based on fraud.

John said,

“Now go read the peer-reviewed published journals. You won’t because they are real, conclusive, proving everything I said already.”

If you read the article, you’d know that I have read them. If you go to my article and read the comments you can see that they are discussed. Every single one of them prominently features LifeVantage insider shareholder, Joe McCord. These are not unbiased studies. Several of them are published in journals for which Joe McCord is on the journal board. Only one of the 7 articles involved people as subjects. That study was done over 5 years ago. It involved 29 participants. Most of them dropped out of it by completion of the study.

If you don’t want to read my site, read the Talk section of the Wikipedia article on Protandim. They are intelligently discussed there as well.

The science is fake.
Protandim is fake.

John said,

I will not be responding to ignorance any further, ESPECIALLY after baring my proof.
It is not refutable. There is no debate, again. Protandim can’t fix stupid.

Again, you are the one who is ignorant. You won’t even come to my site where I have refuted all your “proof.”

We agree on one thing. Protandim can’t fix stupid. You are a living, breathing example that.

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43 Lazy Man and Money May 23, 2011 at 9:38 pm

John Bowers said,

“By the way, after checking with my attorney, he laughed. This is a private blog, I can call you any name I want, say anything I want and opine on any subject I want to.”

It is time to fire your attorney for not being competant. What part of the LifeVantage agreement that I posted above did you not understand. Was it the part where LifeVantage said, “Not only are such claims violations of LifeVantage policies, but they potentially violate federal and state laws and regulations, including the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act and Federal Trade Commission Act.”

It’s like falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater. I would familiarize yourself with the the FTC’s guidelines on endorsements:

Focus on:

“The revised Guides – issued after public comment and consumer research – reflect three basic truth-in-advertising principles:

- Endorsements must be truthful and not misleading;
- If the advertiser doesn’t have proof that the endorser’s experience represents what consumers will achieve by using the product, the ad must clearly and conspicuously disclose the generally expected results in the depicted circumstances; and
- If there’s a connection between the endorser and the marketer of the product that would affect how people evaluate the endorsement, it should be disclosed.

Now look at your marketing. You were misleading people into expecting that your experience (which should be noted has not shown to be truthful) is not what consumers can expect. The advertiser (LifeVantage) has no proof about the endorser’s (John Bower’s) experience.

At least you disclosed your relationship.

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44 John May 23, 2011 at 9:40 pm

Answer to $100K question: There is a celebrity, Montel Williams, who was at first a customer back in 2004, I believe. He is still on Protandim. John Quinonas (sp?) is on Protandim. Please go watch the ABC Primetime investigative report and begin to have an educated opinion. By the way, Mr. Williams can’t stand up and give his testimony that Protandim has put his Multiple Sclerosis in remission or that it has contributed to his disease being treated, cured or prevented, he’d get in trouble by the likes of Lazy Man and company. Better yet, go watch Montel Williams on YouTube.com and see what he says… he is now a distributor, but not a paid spokesman for LifeVantage.

“Go Read the peer-reviewed clinical studies.”
Let me help:
Louisiana State University studied skin cancer and said, “…tumor multiplicity and incidence can be decreased through the dietary administration of Protandim.”
Virginia Commonwealth University and The American Heart Association, (heard of them?) funded their own study and determined, “(Protandim) prevented fibrosis and capillary loss and preserved RV function despite continuing pressure overload.” What does that mean? Not much, just that Protandim prevents scar tissue from forming in the heart and despite continued pressure overload, they could not kill the mice by a heart attack. Ask your cardiologist; he will literally not believe you until he reads the clinical.

Those two studies alone would make Protandim worth thousands of dollars PER PILL to someone with heart disease or cancer. LifeVantage charges $1.40/day (approx.). Hmmm, Dave, how about if I start a pharmacy, pay billions per year in advertising, build thousands of retail outlets at millions each and then put Protandim on the shelf for $700/month for the prescription. I’ll sell you a bottle now for $700 if it will make you feel better…

Dave, you need to educate yourself on the science of oxidative stress and its effects on the human body. Until you do that, you really can’t bash Protandim.

And, again, about Network Marketing: I got burned out of $25,000 and a home trying to peddle cell phones, home services and home security systems. THAT company should be hated on and it is endorsed by a guy who was going to run for president! I was more violently opposed to MLM companies than you, Lazy Man, Dale, J Money and my wife combined… When I studied the unbiased science, my jaded mind was changed. When I got a paycheck one week later, I gave LifeVantage a chance. When my family and friends started giving me power hugs, I jumped in with both feet, heart, mind, body and soul. Watching my team achieve true prosperity and health, that is priceless.

In the next three years, Dave, I will be helping thousands of people retire. I can HONESTLY do that with you as well. You seem like a smart guy too; what if Steve Jobs (Apple Computer) asked you into his garage to see something incredible back in the 1980′s? Would you have gone or mocked him and say, “Nobody will ever want a computer!!”

I’m inviting you into my garage, Dave, seriously. I would like to Skype a presentation for you at 4pm AZ time or 5pm AZ time, you name the day and I’ll give you my Skype name. Please watch the ABC Primetime first and then you can bash me with all the facts, figures, comments and the like. I only have 7 positions per presentation available and the seats fill up fast. Let me know as soon as possible. J Money and Lazy Man are invited as well. Understand though that I am not a slick, fast talking seasoned network marketer. I’ve only been involved in this company for 6 months, so take it easy on me…

John Bowers, LifeVantage Independent Distributor

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45 John May 23, 2011 at 9:48 pm

Lazy Man. Again, I take my attorney’s advice over yours ANY DAY! I have subscribed to this waste of time private blog, therefore it is private. End of story.

I will not waste my time any further on truly stupid people. Socialism works for you. Keep up the good work, Lazy Man–it’s all in your name.

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46 Lazy Man and Money May 23, 2011 at 9:52 pm

[I'm limited by J. Money's spam filter in the number of links I can include in a single comment... thus my need to include several comments.]

John Bowers, I’d like to ask whether you think your attorney is better than all of MonaVie’s? MonaVie is a big corporation that can hire a whole legal department. Let’s see what MonaVie has to say on the subject of the FTC’s guidelines:

“MonaVie distributors who provide testimonials online AND offline must be truthful AND be subject to typical results.

The advertiser must have adequate substantiation for any experience described by the endorser, i.e- typical results. Gone are the days of simply posting ‘results may vary’.

Ex. ‘MonaVie Pulse restored my eyesight.’ – While that maybe an honest opinion, it is not a typical result, and therefore, any such opinion posted online or said offline would be in violation of the current guidelines, unless there is valid research to support the claim.”

There you go… straight from the company blog of a fellow MLM. You simply can not make claims about results that are not proven to be typical results. They even point out that while it may be your honest opinion, it is in violation of the guidelines. If you want to continue to vocalize such “opinions” you must resign from LifeVantage and give up your financial interest.

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47 Lazy Man and Money May 23, 2011 at 9:58 pm

John Bowers said,

“I could care less what a socialist Lazy Man thinks of the industry that Warren Buffet claims is ‘…The best investment I ever made.’”

Is John Bowers lying to you again? It seems like he is: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-28/buffett-says-buying-his-home-for-31-500-was-third-best-investment-he-made.html

“Billionaire Warren Buffett said buying a home was the third-best investment he ever made, after the rings he bought for his first wife, Susan Thompson, and, after her death, his second wife, Astrid Menks.”

That’s pretty much a direct quote right? Bloomberg is a reputable source, especially on a financial topic, right? This article is only 3 months old. Is John going to redeem his reputation by providing a better source.

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48 Lazy Man and Money May 23, 2011 at 10:01 pm

John Bowers said,

“When Robert Kiyosaki, a multi-multi millionaire states that Network Marketing is THE business of the 21st Century…”

Wait, are we talking about this Robert Kiyosaki? http://www.juicescam.com/robert-kiyosaki-rich-dad-poor-dad-mlms-and-monavie/

Yikes!

If Robert Kiyosaki believes network marketing is THE business of the 21st century , please state for the record which network marketing company he is a distributor for. I would like to contact him and get him to show me a sales presentation.

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49 Lazy Man and Money May 23, 2011 at 11:06 pm

John Bowers said,

“Please go watch the ABC Primetime investigative report and begin to have an educated opinion. By the way, Mr. Williams can’t stand up and give his testimony that Protandim has put his Multiple Sclerosis in remission or that it has contributed to his disease being treated, cured or prevented, he’d get in trouble by the likes of Lazy Man and company. Better yet, go watch Montel Williams on YouTube.com and see what he says… he is now a distributor, but not a paid spokesman for LifeVantage.”

You realize that the ABC Primetime report is from June 2, 2005, right?

Here’s a quote from that report:

“Because Protandim is composed of herbal ingredients with a long history of use, it is being marketed as a nutraceutical, and does not require FDA approval.

However, the company is planning further clinical studies in three to four months to assess Protandim in both diabetes and heart disease, which will be submitted for substantiation.”

Since it is just days away from being 6 years old, it seems worth asking how far along LifeVantage is to getting that FDA approval for diabetes and heart disease. One would think they’d have made more progress by now.

I linked you to the FTC’s words about testimonies. I linked you to a fellow MLM’s words about testimonies. These aren’t my guidelines. This is the FTC, a government agency that is devoted to looking out for consumers. Which of the two sources are you having trouble understanding?

I’m going to review what Montel says about Protandim and if he makes any connection between it and Protandim, I’ll be sure to contact his lawyers. Please point out any videos where you see this happening.

With Montel Williams you realize that he by being a distributor is a form of being a paid spokesman for LifeVantage, right?

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50 Lazy Man and Money May 23, 2011 at 11:46 pm

John Bowers said,

““Go Read the peer-reviewed clinical studies.”
Let me help:
Louisiana State University studied skin cancer and said, “…tumor multiplicity and incidence can be decreased through the dietary administration of Protandim.”

Allow me to finish that quote for you. You made it seem like the sentence was done there. Again this is how you mislead people by giving only half the story, “… tumor multiplicity and incidence can be decreased through the dietary administration of Protandim in the two-stage skin carcinogenesis mouse model.”

How about noting this study on vitamin E: “Mice treated with each form of vitamin E showed no signs of toxicity and had significantly less acute and chronic skin damage induced by UV irradiation, as indicated by reduced inflammation and pigmentation and by later onset and lesser incidence of skin cancer.”

So it seems that Protandim is similar to cheap vitamin E in the aspect of skin cancer in mice. Last I checked my vitamin E didn’t cost $40 or $50 a bottle.

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51 Lazy Man and Money May 24, 2011 at 12:07 am

John Bowers said,

“Virginia Commonwealth University and The American Heart Association, (heard of them?) funded their own study and determined, “(Protandim) prevented fibrosis and capillary loss and preserved RV function despite continuing pressure overload.” What does that mean? Not much, just that Protandim prevents scar tissue from forming in the heart and despite continued pressure overload, they could not kill the mice by a heart attack. Ask your cardiologist; he will literally not believe you until he reads the clinical.”

This was my favorite study. The study wasn’t designed to study Protandim. It was done by injecting the alcohol extract of the equivalent of whole bottle of Protandim into a rat. So we’ve got something that isn’t Protandim (an alcohol extract), that was adminstered in a way that isn’t recommended by the company (injected rather than orally), in an amount that the company doesn’t recommend, by subjects who are not the intended customers of the product. This the science that you say can not be refuted or debated. REALLY?

It’s worth noting that the grants for this study have been studied on my site. The researchers misappropriated funds. The grants they requested were for different studies (which were also published). The grant applications make no mention of Protandim. This means that when the money was granted they didn’t approve for it to be used for the purpose of studying Protandim.

Of course, the average person wouldn’t know this. LifeVantage is counting on people like John Bowers to market things to like this to people who aren’t willing enough to do the research.

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52 Lazy Man and Money May 24, 2011 at 12:21 am

John Bowers said,

“Those two studies alone would make Protandim worth thousands of dollars PER PILL to someone with heart disease or cancer. LifeVantage charges $1.40/day (approx.). Hmmm, Dave, how about if I start a pharmacy, pay billions per year in advertising, build thousands of retail outlets at millions each and then put Protandim on the shelf for $700/month for the prescription. I’ll sell you a bottle now for $700 if it will make you feel better…”

Perhaps if you are Mickey Mouse it might be worth thousands of dollars per pill. Last I checked mice aren’t the customers. In addition, if this were the case LifeVantage would invest in the clinical studies necessary to get it approved by the FDA.

John said,

“And, again, about Network Marketing: I got burned out of $25,000 and a home trying to peddle cell phones, home services and home security systems. THAT company should be hated on and it is endorsed by a guy who was going to run for president! I was more violently opposed to MLM companies than you, Lazy Man, Dale, J Money and my wife combined… When I studied the unbiased science, my jaded mind was changed. When I got a paycheck one week later, I gave LifeVantage a chance. When my family and friends started giving me power hugs, I jumped in with both feet, heart, mind, body and soul. Watching my team achieve true prosperity and health, that is priceless.”

As you know Joe McCord, a LifeVantage Insider sharehoder, is listed as an author in every study on Protandim. Thus you must be talking about some other product when you say, “unbiased science.” Can you let us know which one that is?

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53 Lazy Man and Money May 24, 2011 at 12:49 am

John said,

“Lazy Man. Again, I take my attorney’s advice over yours ANY DAY! I have subscribed to this waste of time private blog, therefore it is private. End of story.

I will not waste my time any further on truly stupid people. Socialism works for you. Keep up the good work, Lazy Man–it’s all in your name.”

Again, it’s not my advice, it is the FTC words that I’ve properly cited. It is also a fellow MLMs (MonaVie). Don’t shoot the messanger. Just address why you think your attorney knows more than MonaVie’s. Also address his response to the FTC’s document.

Furthermore, please explain why you think this blog is private. It is clearly publicly available for anyone with a working web browser to read.

You don’t even know the definition private? REALLY?

Jerry Seinfeld once famously quote, “And you want to be my latex salesman?” The same can be applied here to Protandim.

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54 SecretUnderCoverBlogger May 24, 2011 at 2:12 am

Lol! John Bowers, YOU ARE KICKIN THESE Guyz butts! You right about Private blog. Lazy, all he doin is double talk. Gettin mad at testimonies that ain even bowers and then gettin mad at non testimonies. You all better look at \rotandim because its a nutrigenomic! Just saw that one.

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55 nicegirl May 24, 2011 at 2:28 am

I’m a single Mom and got my vantage pack 2 weeks ago. In it was $715in Protandim. I sold them all the first day. I paid my rent and got my money back and now have 3 distributors. If this really is a scam, you guyscritisizing it are makig money off it too, right? From your advertisers? So…. who is doing the bad thing here? Me? No. Mr bowers? No. Dale? No. How about dave? No. LifeVantage pays and Protandim works. Mr lazyman. How about you inject youself with cance and well try and see if Protandim works? Please, you can’t argue with doctors like Joe MCord. I bet you guys still think the world is flat.

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56 Nathan May 24, 2011 at 2:37 am

Lol! Nice one nice girl! Unfortunately protandim will probably help his cancer :/ this is the first time I actually wish protandim was a scam lol PROTANDIM!!!

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57 nicegirl May 24, 2011 at 2:47 am

Hi nathan. I don’t mean to be mean and hateful, but this company really does what they say. Who cares if someone else invented it! Who cares if mr lazy guy doesn’t. Believe that this network marketing is a great way to get their product awareness out there. Its very disturbing when someone tries to show these guys the real. Deal and they scoff at it, kindof like Jesus, you know? Sad. Very sad. Nathan, I’m sure we’ll meet soon as LifeVantage grows huge. Kudos to you and John and all of us making a difference. Good night.

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58 Lazy Man and Money May 24, 2011 at 10:14 am

Nicegirl,

How did you sell the $715 of Protandim (around 15-16 bottles) in the first day? What kind of marketing did you use? Since the product hasn’t proven to be more effective than a multivitamin in reducing oxidative stress and doesn’t cure any medical conditions. Did you disclose that it was a product that was quickly thrown together to replace the failed business deal for CMX-1152 that was originally supposed to be Protandim?

I guess if you are going to give a one-sided sales pitch and ignore all the research in articles like this, it is probably easy to sell product and sign distributors. Does that make it ethical and legal? No.

There are enough people with cancer that if LifeVantage wanted to put the product to clinical trials it would have no trouble doing so. As a distributor, you should be outraged that they haven’t already done this to help you sell the product.

As for distributors making money, I have no issue with that. The problem with these scams is that 99% of people end up losing money. Mathematically they need to convince more people to buy the expensive product to subsize a small fraction of your own. J. Money and myself give away our product in an effort to educate people without asking for a single dollar from you. Let’s see LifeVantage step up and do the same. You were the one who brought up the comparison.

Nicegirl it is very important to note that someone with no scientific background invented Protandim from some commonly available herbs and spices. If you don’t believe this, I’ll cook something up in my kitchen just like Paul Myhill did. Myhill even admitted that they are using Joe McCord’s reputation for marketing. In addition is really sad to support such fraudulent marketing: LifeVantage and Dr. Joe McCord Lie about the Creation of Protandim?

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59 John May 24, 2011 at 12:54 pm

Nice Girl, you hit the dummy on the head! LOL! I would like to personally thank J Money and Lazy Man for this forum. Overnight, I received 3 personal customers and 2 possible distributors!

Keep up the great work Nice Girl! Don’t forget to follow-up with your customers, Nice Girl and make sure to get their personal testimonies. It is SO rewarding to hear people, real people, talk about the effects of Protandim. If you should need any help, please call me. I don’t care if you are up-line, down-line, cross-line; Your success is our success.

Have a Blessed Week to all of you!

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60 Dave May 24, 2011 at 2:38 pm

I’ve got a feeling John called a couple of his friends and had them write some things on here for his support. You never answered my questions above John. Maybe one of your friends/distributors can.

What kind of company would charge you over $500 for you to sell “their” product? What kind of a company makes you sign up for an auto shipment? If the products worked so good, you should want more. It shouldn’t be forced on you. It should be on retail shelves. Oh ya it was. It failed.
Are you aware that it LFVN.OB once had a stock price of over $20? It is now a penny stock valued at less than $2. All the reports and findings you claim that I’m sure investors read and study as well do nothing for its reputation or stock price. Nobody cares about it but the makers and its pawns (that would be you John, and of course your pawns or the people you bribed to write in your defense).
So if you don’t mind answer my above questions.

PS And you really don’t know if these celebs are taking these pills just because they say they do. And you really don’t know if it is helping Montel. I know a man who had cancer 10 years ago and the doctors are amazed because its gone, like it never was there. The man thanks God, not any miracle pill etc. So stop BSing people, because you REALLY DON”T KNOW!!!!!

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61 Andrew May 24, 2011 at 2:49 pm

Wanted to follow up on some of the things I have read on this site. Why listen to this s__t who is this person who gives there opinion on whether or not something is a scam. Lazy Man what??? You need to check your facts. If you think you can formulate what the doctors did than do it. 99% of the people don’t believe in themselves or are willing to get out of their comfort zone and do the work. Where is the scam????? I feel sorry for the people that come to this site and read your crap and listen to your opinion. To all my LIfeVantage family. Rock on, lets change some lives.

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62 SuperDale May 24, 2011 at 4:16 pm

Wow…it’s been interesting watching this thread go back and forth. So here I am…I’m not involved with LifeVantage and I’m not against any company or marketing methods….I came to this tread because I have a friend that is trying to introduce me to Protandim and I ALWAYS do research on anything before I purchase anything….I’m NOT an emotional buyer. My friend came to me after I had a bout with a heart condition…ended up with 90% blockage resulting in Angioplasty and a Stent. That being said…. here’s what I’ve discovered:

I’m kind of leaning towards LazyMan’s side of the debate….here’s why:

1) It seem folks are VERY passionate about the two sides.
2) It’s interesting that when someone doesn’t agree with the other point of view, then that person is “stupid”, “unintelligent” or (insert your insult here). One of my favorite quotes is “A man should reiterate his point instead of yelling”.
3) I find it childish that folks think that by “setting a precedence before their statement” some how validates their opinion…ie: “All intelligent beings know that X is the better solution”.
4) After reading this thread, it seems like there is almost a “religious” attitude about this product…granted that could be caused by their passion…but I’m reminded about a similar situation that happened about 5 years ago when a friend of mine tried to get me involved with a “opportunity” that would make me a lot of money, called 12DailyPro. Even when the company was “going down”, folks that had made money where blinded and ignored the truth.

I’m NOT saying that this is the same, I’m saying folks are acting with the same attitude in their comments and beliefs….(Apple has the same issue right now with customers getting infected with Malware, but Apple is telling their support staff not to validate or offer help for customers…the Apple Fans are trying to defend a product that they’ve touted for years as one they don’t have to “worry about virus/malware” products, while the rest of the computer community is saying “wake up..it’s happening, welcome to the world of security”.

So that being said…maybe someone can answer a couple of questions for me so I can make an informed decision on whether or not to get “involved”.

1) Who really created Protandim? If it isn’t Dr. McCord, why hide that?
2) Does anyone here have any personal experience with Protadim helpping them with something…not a friend of a friend, or a brother-in-law…but themselves directly. Do you just feel better or what did you get out of Protandim?
3) Why aren’t there studies on humans after so many years?
4) If the items inside of Protandim are so basic…why not mass produce it and (if it’s a great product) make it readily/affordable. I know that aspirin manufactures make profits off their product and it’s WAY basic.
5) My friend told me to take the product sheet to my doctor and ask the following question “Would anything in here hurt me”… which seems like a stupid question, as my doctor stated “No, but then again, I’d say the same thing about a taking 1000mg of vitamin c or a gel cap. of water and fish oil. Should the question be asked: Is anything in this (Protadim) going to for sure help my heart?”….I guess that’s something I’ll ask him (my friend) since he proposed the question.
6) If LifeVantage states “This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease”, why take it?
7) Why insult those that don’t agree? “X can’t fix stupid”…childish…and not a great representation of you and your company.

If you’d like to answer some of these questions, please do so.

(sorry about the spelling/grammer…in a hurry)
-SuperDale

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63 John May 24, 2011 at 6:57 pm

Super Dale, Thanks for asking:
“1) Who really created Protandim? If it isn’t Dr. McCord, why hide that?”
Nobody is trying to ‘hide’ who created Protandim. The inference by Lazy Dude is to distract from my main points all along: It is real. It is validated by acedamic scholars, credible universities, impeccable scientists. I’m sure Lazy Dude will refute that statement as well and discount every university because of some strange person on their faculty.

2) Does anyone here have any personal experience with Protandim helping them with something…not a friend of a friend, or a brother-in-law…but themselves directly. Do you just feel better or what did you get out of Protandim?
As a LifeVantage Distributor, as so eloquently pointed out by Lazy Dude, I cannot give you a personal testimony about Protandim. I can’t tell you that the fibrosis in my spine from receiving a bone fusion and Harrington rods installed is gone. I can’t tell you my teeth have stopped hurting while on Protandim. I can’t tell you that I sleep soundly and my libido is excellent and my energy levels have returned to that of a teenager. I can’t tell you any of those things because it will be used against me somehow, somewhere. If you want testimonials from over 300 of my monthly customers, I can get those to you Of course, those are clinical trials. They are testimonies. They will make you cry and smile. They are not paid representatives of any company with no axe to grind. They are normal people.

3) Why aren’t there studies on humans after so many years?
IF people would read about Protandim on http://www.lifevantage.com, they would see that over 26 universities are studying Protandim. Being a publicly traded company, they will not tell us what is being studied nor if they are human trials, else that would be insider information. In 6 years, 7, count them SEVEN peer-reviewed articles about Protandim have been published. More are coming, it’s inevitable.
4) If the items inside of Protandim are so basic…why not mass produce it and (if it’s a great product) make it readily/affordable. I know that aspirin manufactures make profits off their product and it’s WAY basic.
Affordable? How much does Bill Gates (microsoft) pay to manufacture his latest software? How much does it cost to make Viagra? Each pill is $10 (give or take), but nobody is telling Pfizer or Bill to lower the cost! How ridiculous is it that the consumers would try and demand a price reduction on an all-natural patented product that is supposedly so “Basic”… Perhaps, there is a company that wants to make money for its shareholders and instead of paying media giants to advertise, or give all the money to marketing companies, they have allowed “basic” people the opportunity to spread awareness and make a profit for their families.

5) My friend told me to take the product sheet to my doctor and ask the following question “Would anything in here hurt me”… which seems like a stupid question, as my doctor stated “No, but then again, I’d say the same thing about a taking 1000mg of vitamin c or a gel cap. of water and fish oil. Should the question be asked: Is anything in this (Protadim) going to for sure help my heart?”….I guess that’s something I’ll ask him (my friend) since he proposed the question.
Super Dale, your friend loves you, that is why he/she wants you to take Protandim. Please go look up ‘oxidative stress’ or ask your doctor about it… is that too much to ask? Why not hear it from your own physician? Not me, not your friend, and certainly not from Lazy Dude.

6) If LifeVantage states “This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease”, why take it?
You are trying to make Protandim a pharmaceutical. It isn’t. That categorization by the FDA is what we do not want. What we can say is, “Protandim is clinically proven to reduce oxidative stress in mammals (that includes humans in that study) by 40 to 70 percent…” Go ask your doctor why you should take it, please

7) Why insult those that don’t agree? “X can’t fix stupid”…childish…and not a great representation of you and your company.
If this was a peer-reviewed, respected journal, I would refrain from insults. You are right. I get cynical when I’m bombarded with…garbage. I have digressed. I began writing with the hopes that Lazy Man and J Money would INFORM their readers, but Lazy Man has attacked with ignorance, using models from the 1990′s about network marketing, not even once exploring the compensation plan of LifeVantage, wholly assuming everyone is getting ripped off. I have proven that the science is real, that Protandim is real. I have proven that billionaires and millionaires validate Network Marketing as a viable and excellent method of distribution. He has used MonaVie as his basis for attack. They cannot compare, ever. They have NO peer-reviewed studies backing up their product. NOT ONE.
By the way, did you know these two guys are making money off of our conversations right now? Is anyone offended or mad? Naw, it’s a free country, right? Why would ANYONE attack another for making an honest living, helping people and helping their families to retire or at least have a choice of retirement?

All I can say, Super Dale, is that the people on this blog are all hiding behind a fake name so it makes it impersonal, except when I get personally attacked. It should be noted that ONLY the LifeVantage supporters are the ones who list their real names… That should give you a clue about integrity.

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64 John May 24, 2011 at 7:02 pm

Oops, I made a mistake, “If you want testimonials from over 300 of my monthly customers, I can get those to you Of course, those are clinical trials. They are testimonies. They will make you cry and smile. They are not paid representatives of any company with no axe to grind. They are normal people.”

Should have read: If you want testimonials from over 300 of my monthly customers, I can get those to you Of course, those are NOT clinical trials. They are testimonies. They will make you cry and smile. They are not paid representatives of any company with no axe to grind. They are normal people.”

Sorry for the error

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65 John May 24, 2011 at 7:17 pm

Dave,
YOU ASKED: “What kind of company would charge you over $500 for you to sell “their” product? What kind of a company makes you sign up for an auto shipment?
ANSWER: McDonalds, Wendy’s, Burger King, Radio Shack, and any other independently owned and operated corporate franchise.

YOU ASKED: Are you aware that it LFVN.OB once had a stock price of over $20?
ANSWER: Duh. that was just after the ABC Primetime. And when I began, the stock was .33 cents/share. Now, hovering around $1.70. It’s called opportunity. Get on board or stay on your couch scratching yourself. Investors are taking a look at us. That’s why we are performing better and better every day…

LOL! And thanks for the flattery. I don’t have to pay for supporters. My family is every man, woman, child and beast that our product can positively effect. If they come to my defense, I thank them, graciously. Especially the ones that become our Preferred Customers. I will collect power hugs later!

YOU HAD A POST SCRIPT STATING: And you really don’t know if these celebs are taking these pills just because they say they do. And you really don’t know if it is helping Montel. I know a man who had cancer 10 years ago and the doctors are amazed because its gone, like it never was there. The man thanks God, not any miracle pill etc. So stop BSing people, because you REALLY DON”T KNOW!!!!!

Thanks for making my case. God is behind this. I thank God every day for the opportunity provided me and my family. I thank GOD for Protandim. I thank LifeVantage for doing Network Marketing correctly.

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66 John May 24, 2011 at 7:27 pm

SUPER DALE! I just reread your posting. So, so sorry. Here is a link that you MUST follow and read about Protandim preventing a condition known as Intimal Hyperplasia. (YES, I SAID PREVENTING! IT’s THEIR WORDS) The study was done by Ohio State University and funded by The American Heart Association and the National Institutes of Health. Your friend truly loves you; he/she wants you healthy.
PLEASE read it and take it to your doctor, cardiologist:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B64vPdJJNOenYzNhNGYyZjktNDlhMy00ZDhhLTlmNTctZjA0MGNmYzAzN2Zm&hl=en&authkey=CNHOm_8B

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67 John May 24, 2011 at 7:31 pm

Here is a press release:
Tuesday, January 04, 2011

Protandim® Found to Prevent a Process that Causes Blood Vessel Blockage in New Peer-Reviewed Study From The Ohio State University

Protandim® prevents the proliferation of cells that can cause re-blockage of vessels following coronary artery bypass surgery, stenting, and carotid enarterectomy

SAN DIEGO, Jan. 4, 2011 /PRNewswire/ — LifeVantage Corporation (OTC Bulletin Board: LFVN), the maker of science-based solutions to oxidative stress, announced today that a new peer-reviewed study involving its flagship product, Protandim®, sponsored by the American Heart Association and the National Institutes of Health, was published in the scientific journal Free Radical Biology and Medicine. The study, conducted by researchers at The Ohio State University, examined the biochemical mechanisms that underlie the ability of Protandim® to suppress intimal hyperplasia (over-proliferation of cells that line the vessel wall), a common adverse event that limits the effectiveness of several types of vascular surgery. Protandim®, a patented dietary supplement comprised of five highly synergistic herbal ingredients, has been shown in earlier studies to activate the transcription factor Nrf2, a signal to the cell’s DNA to regulate a network of protective genes. This new study further investigates Protandim’s® ability to increase production of the body’s Nrf2-regulated protective genes, sometimes referred to as “survival genes”, which include most of the antioxidant enzymes.

The study, titled “Protandim attenuates intimal hyperplasia in human saphenous veins cultured ex vivo via a catalase-dependent pathway” by Binata Joddar, Rashmeet K. Reen, Michael S. Firstenberg, Saradhadevi Varadharaj, Joe M. McCord, Jay L. Zweier, and Keith J. Gooch is published in the journal Free Radical Biology and Medicine and may be found at the following link.

Coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery is performed more than 400,000 times a year in the United States. Most procedures requiring multiple bypasses still utilize the saphenous vein (taken from the leg) for secondary grafts. Ten years after CABG surgery, roughly half of the saphenous vein grafts will have become largely, if not completely blocked by processes that may result from intimal hyperplasia. Previous studies concluded that a major factor causing this condition is the three-to-five-fold higher concentration of oxygen experienced by the graft in its new environment. In this study, treatment with Protandim® significantly increased antioxidant enzyme activity in veins cultured at high oxygen, while reducing free radical levels, lipid peroxidation, and, importantly, reducing intimal proliferation to the level seen in a normal healthy saphenous vein.

“This study was conducted in an ex vivo model using human saphenous veins harvested from patients undergoing bypass surgery-the exact population who might benefit from a therapy to prevent intimal hyperplasia,” said Dr. McCord, a co-author of the study. “Future animal studies will attempt to demonstrate the ability of Protandim® to block post-surgical intimal hyperplasia in vivo, following not only the CABG procedure, but perhaps angioplasty with stent insertion or carotid endarterectomy, as well. The long-term effectiveness of all three procedures is limited by eventual restenosis, a return of blockage often due to intimal hyperplasia. The three procedures together affect more than 1.5 million Americans every year.”

“Protandim® was shown in an earlier human trial to increase antioxidant enzyme production and to eliminate the age-dependent increase in the most widely used marker of oxidative stress. The current study, as well as other recent studies, have shown that Protandim® provides benefits to the body that extend beyond its ability to decrease oxidative stress,” stated David Brown, LifeVantage President and CEO. “This study was independently funded by the American Heart Association and by the Heart, Lung, Blood Institute of the National Institutes of Health. LifeVantage greatly appreciates the continuing academic interest in Protandim® shown by researchers such as Dr. Keith Gooch and his colleagues. We continue to be encouraged at the tool that Protandim® has become for researchers of many health conditions associated with oxidative stress.”

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68 John May 24, 2011 at 11:34 pm

TODAY! ANOTHER SKIN CANCER STUDY INVOLVING PROTANDIM IS OUT!

The role of manganese superoxide dismutase in skin cancer.
Robbins D, Zhao Y.
Source

Department of Pharmacology, Toxicology & Neuroscience, Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center, 1501 Kings Highway, Shreveport, LA 71130, USA.
Abstract

Recent studies have shown that antioxidant enzyme expression and activity are drastically reduced in most human skin diseases, leading to propagation of oxidative stress and continuous disease progression. However, antioxidants, an endogenous defense system against reactive oxygen species (ROS), can be induced by exogenous sources, resulting in protective effects against associated oxidative injury. Many studies have shown that the induction of antioxidants is an effective strategy to combat various disease states. In one approach, a SOD mimetic was applied topically to mouse skin in the two-stage skin carcinogenesis model. This method effectively reduced oxidative injury and proliferation without interfering with apoptosis. In another approach, Protandim, a combination of 5 well-studied medicinal plants, was given via dietary administration and significantly decreased tumor incidence and multiplicity by 33% and 57%, respectively. These studies suggest that alterations in antioxidant response may be a novel approach to chemoprevention. This paper focuses on how regulation of antioxidant expression and activity can be modulated in skin disease and the potential clinical implications of antioxidant-based therapies.

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69 John May 25, 2011 at 12:06 am

HEART DISEASE and TISSUE RESPONSE WITH PROTANDIM
Todd Graeser
8:28pm Apr 21

I want to share an email I received from a VIP in my group, Greg Dieker. Great news on Cowboy Paul!!!

For those of you who attended Convention you got to meet Cowboy Paul from Hartford, South Dakota. For those who didn’t Paul is the son of Randy & Deb Antonsen, distributors on our team. Paul is seven years old and has been through 5 heart surgeries in his young life. He has been on Protandim for 6 months or so now and is doing well.

His parents Randy & Deb called me today to let me know that Paul’s cardiologist is so impressed with Paul’s improvement in the last three months that she’s moving out his regular checkups and is considering taking him off the heart transplant list!!

This is fabulous news for Cowboy Paul, his family and everyone who has been touched by him. Please keep him in your prayers!

I truly believe that we are here to help people like Paul and that is our greatest benefit from being a part of LifeVantage.

What will the next truly amazing story be?

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70 Dave May 25, 2011 at 3:34 pm

John, WOW, You REALLY DON”T KNOW. A stock plummeting after a TV news report came out? Now God is involved with an MLM business? I can see why you are in the situation you are in.
Maybe ABC Primetime can do a story on you (hopefully not your suicide next year) about how powerful these MLM companies are at brainwashing people. Good Luck. I wish you and your family the best after Protandim is just another herb supplement on the shelf for $4.99.

PS Oh and I searched Protandim on the American Heart Association website. As we all know the results stated ” No pages were found containing “Protandim”. I guess nobody cares.

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71 Lazy Man and Money May 25, 2011 at 3:51 pm

SuperDale

Thanks for asking some very smart questions. This is what a wise consumer does.

I hope you read John’s answers carefully. He mostly dodged the question by answering something only tangentially related.

Here are the answers he should have given:

1) He should have directed you to two articles: Protandim Inventor Paul Myhill has No Medical Background. It tells how Paul Myhill has his name on the patent. Paul Myhill admits, “Because the core composition came from a very unlikely source – me – we initially decided to hide that fact for marketing purposes and instead rely on the impeccable background of Dr. McCord.”

The second article, LifeVantage and Dr. Joe McCord Lie about the Creation of Protandim?, shows that the company is still trying to hide the fact today.

2) This was actually a fair response by John. I would only add that I could show you dozens of people saying that NatraBurst from One24 and MonaVie helped them with some medical condition. In the orginal article, there are links to these articles on my site and you can read the comments. This is typical from the MLM industry.

Here’s a related thought. Protandim wasn’t sold via the MLM model until late 2008 (I think October). Before that it was sold in GNC. Go looking around on the web and see if you can find claims that Protandim helped someone with medical conditions prior to that. The product hasn’t changed, it’s just the marketing.

3) John redirected your question to say that universities are studying Protandim. First, universities don’t studies – scientists affiliated with them do. It’s a large difference. John didn’t address why only the first study back in 2005 was done on humans. In 6 years there’s been plenty of time to do more of them. The first study only took 120 days.

Something to think about is the timing of these studies. They batch that have come out was timed with the Protandim going to MLM. Paul Myhill, in the same interview he admitted to the company trying to trick the public, said that LifeVantage is “encouraging” studies since they can’t legally make medical claims.

4) John shouldn’t have brought up Bill Gates (Windows) and Pfizer (Viagra). Both of those companies have massive R&D departments that require continual funding. These products require the work of many people working many long hours. Paul Myhill put 5 common ingredients together 6 years ago and Protandim hasn’t changed since. They don’t need any kind of R&D. They don’t even manufacture the product… a company called Chemins does. LifeVantage hasn’t released an Income Disclosure Statement yet, but if they are like MonaVie, they pay their distributors less than minimum wage and by requiring them to buy the product to earn commissions end up essentially paying them in the very same overpriced pill that they are selling.

5) This was my favorite question. It shows that you aren’t falling for the deceptive tricks that distributors use. John didn’t answer the question, he turned it to “Look up oxidatative stress and ask your doctor about it.” A better answer would be to note that Protandim consists of the following ingredients (available on Wikipedia from Paul Myhill’s patent):

Milk thistle (Silybum marianum) extract (225 mg)
Bacopa (Bacopa monniera) extract (150 mg)
Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) root (150 mg)
Green tea (Camellia sinensis) extract (75 mg)
Turmeric (Curcuma Ionga) extract (75 mg)

Take that list to your doctor and ask him if this combination is going to help your heart. If, by some amazing chance, he says yes, ask him if you purchased similar quantities separately and took them together if it would be the same. (Note: all products are available on Amazon.com and likely at any vitamin store).

Feel free to bring up oxidative stress with your doctor. Ask if there are any other cheaper products out there (like vitamin C and vitamin E) that may be more suitable.

More to come…

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72 Lazy Man and Money May 25, 2011 at 4:10 pm

6) John is half-right here. The company can’t legally make any claim like that because the product hasn’t undergone the necessary clinical trials. What he fails to mention is that products that include plant sterols (like CholestOff for example) are not pharmaceuticals and can make the claims that they lower cholesterol. LifeVantage could do similar studies on Protandim and make similar claims if they wanted to. That it hasn’t happened in 6 years speaks volumes to me about how little they believe in their product.

The other half of John’s answer is the “Protandim is clinically proven to reduce oxidative stress in mammals (that includes humans in that study) by 40 to 70 percent…” This claim is in reference to the one clinical trial that started with 29 people and ended with around 13.

Here is what Lucy Hornstein, MD says about the phrase clinically proven:

“‘Clinically proven’ is a meaningless combination of words that mean someone is trying to sell something.”

And here is what Dr. Tom Gross says about “clinically proven:”

“Tom Gross: ‘Clinically proven’ doesn’t mean much

My point is that anyone can claim that something is clinically proven to have a certain effect, but without telling you the degree of certainty, the claim has no meaning. It becomes just another sales pitch.

When a manufacturer has to claim that something is clinically proven, it often isn’t, at least not to an acceptable standard. So, don’t be taken in by claims that may not be valid. I would accept the word of neither a manufacturer nor an advertiser as to whether something has been “proven” to work.

So in answering your question John slipped in the LifeVantage marketing pitch. Tricky Paul.

7) I guess John answered why he went to the childish place by saying, “X can’t fix stupid.” I’ve brought up a number of points that John hasn’t addressed. He didn’t address the Harvard and MLM one… just ignored it. He didn’t address the Warren Buffet best investment one… just ignored it.

And this is the person saying he’s being bombarded with garbage?

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73 Lazy Man and Money May 25, 2011 at 4:21 pm

Finally, John felt like bringing another point about the people here blogging anonymously.

Personal finance bloggers like J. Money and myself are often anonymous. Why? Because we give out details on how much money we make and our net worth. This isn’t necessarily the kind of thing most people want to share with the world. Thus is has become the norm for personal finance bloggers to be anonymous. You can read a little more about that here: http://cashmoneylife.com/should-you-blog-anonymously/.

I’ve thought about giving my real name out, but that thought ended quickly when I received death threats from MLM distributors. Now I’m sure that John Bowers is a nice guy. We’d probably enjoy a beer or two if we met in person. However, there are some people out there who aren’t chemically balanced.

It’s just wise for a whister-blower to be anonymous and put out the facts for all to see. I’m just messenger.

People with a strong sense of logic are smart enough to realize that it is the message that is important.

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74 Lazy Man and Money May 25, 2011 at 4:27 pm

John said,

“SUPER DALE! I just reread your posting. So, so sorry. Here is a link that you MUST follow and read about Protandim preventing a condition known as Intimal Hyperplasia. (YES, I SAID PREVENTING! IT’s THEIR WORDS) The study was done by Ohio State University and funded by The American Heart Association and the National Institutes of Health. Your friend truly loves you; he/she wants you healthy.”

What John isn’t telling you is that the funding grants were provided for entirely different studies it was misappropriated for this research. You can look up the grant numbers or read about it in the comments of my site.

This is like hacking Bill Gates bank accounts and using the money to build a nuclear missile and then claiming that the project was funded by Bill Gates. Technically it may be true. It just wasn’t intentionally funded by Bill Gates.

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75 Lazy Man and Money May 25, 2011 at 4:39 pm

Ha ha, John nearly crapped him with another study coming out. He didn’t mention that it was by the same two people that did the one on July 30, 2010: “The chemopreventive effects of Protandim: modulation of p53 mitochondrial translocation and apoptosis during skin carcinogenesis.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20689586

Thanks for the story about Cowboy Paul. Let’s get the name of the cardiologist, so that we can get his official stance on Protandim.

Once again this shows the illegal marketing of the product. They say it doesn’t do anything for medical conditions, but then tell stories like this with a completely contradictory message. To me, it seems like the people are two-faced and that makes it hard to trust such stories.

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76 Lazy Man and Money May 25, 2011 at 4:55 pm

John said,

“[Lazy Man] has used MonaVie as his basis for attack. They cannot compare, ever. They have NO peer-reviewed studies backing up their product. NOT ONE.”

This is another one of John lies. There are 5 entries on Pubmed. With the Harvard/MLM, the Buffet/Best Investment, how many lies do we have here? We must be north of 20, right?

Two of the studies aren’t sponsored by the company are about potential dangerous effects of MonaVie, but that still leaves 3 peer-reviewed studies. One of them is even a double-blind, placebo-controlled study on humans. I encourage everyone to read the study. It will make you laugh. I critiqued it here: http://www.juicescam.com/alex-schauss-placebo-controled-study-monavie/. The point to takeaway and apply to LifeVantage and Protandim is to not take the presence of peer-reviewed articles on Pubmed, an aggregator of journals some of very low quality, as any kind of proof.

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77 Dave May 26, 2011 at 12:36 pm

Yes lazyman, I noticed that about John too. He has trouble directly answering a question. Its obvious that he is squirming. I thought he was just brainwashed but now he is showing that he has been groomed to manipulate the innocent.

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78 John May 27, 2011 at 3:20 am

Lol. I have to laugh out loud. Very loud. You two are a waste of time, Anonymous Dave and Anonymous Lazy Man; whatever your reasoning, you are dishonest, hiding behind a fake name. I simply don’t have time to debate your nonsense. I don’t have millions of dollars in research grants to study Protandim, your taxpayer dollars have done that already. Deny the science all you want–the proof lies in them.

I would like to personally thank the 13 preferred customers I’ve helped as a result of this blog, who have done their intelligent research, taken the peer-reviewed articles to their physicians and have happily begun taking Protandim. Did I say, “took the research to their physicians?” What a minute… that doesn’t prove anything! Did I say 8 peer-reviewed articles that are published? That doesn’t prove anything either! Did I say, “www.pubmed.gov, an aggregator of journals some of very low quality…” as my source? That doesn’t prove anything!

The fact remains, without Dave and Lazy Man being shot in a rocket to the moon, they will not believe we landed there. These two half-educated nit wits probably still believe the world is flat. Without traveling the globe, they will never believe.

I would say you’ve wasted my time, but the more people who read your drivel and inconclusive flatulence, the more customers join LifeVantage after they read for themselves the evidence I’ve presented.

Good night and God Bless you both for this forum.

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79 John May 27, 2011 at 3:49 am

Lazy Man, I have to admit I mistakenly stated, “They have NO peer-reviewed studies backing up their product. NOT ONE” in reference to MonaVie Active(tm).
I’m not sure what that has to do with Protandim… You can discredit me all you want; My error still does not disprove my facts: PROTANDIM IS NOT MONAVIE. Protandim is a Nrf2 Activator, an indirect antioxidant that can not be compared to MonaVie. You’ve tried to stain Protandim with MonaVie, and again, I thank you for the customers! Keep up the good work! The more people research, the more they find I’m right.

Anonymous Lazy Man stated, “What John isn’t telling you is that the funding grants were provided for entirely different studies it was misappropriated for this research.”
He has just accused Louisiana State University and the Skin Cancer Foundation of an illegal act. Anonymous Lazy Man, you’ve just transitioned from ‘the messenger’ to the message. I’m curious what will happen when LSU’s attorney’s are notified of your libelous statement… this could get interesting. And I’ll just keep on helping people relieve their oxidative stress and their financial stress…

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80 John May 27, 2011 at 4:08 am

I must be getting tired…my thread above should have read: Lazy Man and Money has committed libel by accusing the American Heart Association and the National Institutes of Health, along with Ohio State University, of misappropriating funds… THAT will get interesting. Let’s see if it holds water.

In the meantime, http://www.truehope.biz is where you can continue getting your information about Protandim.

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81 John May 27, 2011 at 5:28 am

In response to the Warren Buffet “Lie” that Lazy Man a.k.a. Super Dale a.k.a. Dave have accused me of:
“Did you know that some of the most successful Companies, were built by people just like you, who went on to earn millions and millions of dollars?

And now I will give you the secret.

Companies like Avon, Noni, and TupperWare, at one time, were unheard of, until they were introduced to the World through Network Marketing.

Network Marketing is here to stay and is becoming a MAJOR FORCE of economic growth around the World.

- World Famous Business Tycoon Warren Buffet’s largest acquisition a few years ago was Pampered Chef, a Network Marketing Company.

- Warren Buffet, the “seer of Omaha” and famed billionaire stock market expert, turned heads on Wall Street in 2002 when he bought a network marketing company. Today, he no longer owns one… he owns three.(2005) (And has been quoted as saying, “It’s the best investment I’ve ever made.”) (Oh, and let’s not forget. Warren Buffet bought almost a dozen or so Network Marketing companies last year alone 2006)

- The World’s 2 largest cosmetic companies, Avon and Mary Kay, are both network marketing companies:

- 1 out of every 6 people in Japan participate in Network Marketing and the number of active distributors in the US alone has doubled, just within the past 7 years!

So what does Warren Buffet know that most do not?

First of all, at $125,000+ per share of stock in his company, he knows that the average person just cannot afford this. However, just about anyone can afford to start their own business in Network Marketing.

I mean, it’s not much more than the cost of a dinner and a movie for two and a night on the town. Perhaps this is why one of Warren Buffet’s largest acquisitions of the last few years was a Billion Dollar Network Marketing Company.

“I would challenge anyone on Wall Street to take $3,000 and do what Doris Christopher has done: build a business from scratch into a world-class organization.” As quoted by Warren Buffet from the foreword to The Pampered Chef

Warren also knows that conventional advertising is losing its punch and amongst other things, Network Marketing is the perfect way to reach more people.

- People are inundated by over 4,000 messages every single day – Tivo and other DVR’s allow consumers to eliminate commercials entirely – People are becoming numb to the marketing of major companies and would rather deal with people they know or know of.

IN THIS NEW AGE A NEW WAY IS NEEDED TO BREAKTHROUGH ALL THE CLUTTER!!

Ask yourself, who do you trust more, your friend or a billboard?

So, now you can see why financial luminaries including Warren Buffet, Robert Kiyosaki, Donald Trump, Paul Zane Pilzer and even Richard Branson embrace network marketing.

Remember what Robert Kiyosaki, and Donald Trump said: “If I had to do it all over again, rather than build an old style type of business,I would have started building a network marketing business.”

Paul Pilzer projects that over those same 10 years, the US economy will create ten million new millionaires and that many of them will be created in network marketing.

FACT: Right now, as you read these words, there are about 70,000 people around the world who are not network marketers and by this same time tomorrow, will be!

Sir Richard Branson gave my favorite quote, on the risk of entrepreneurship. “If you don’t take risks you won’t achieve anything. The quote was why he started his own business. He wanted to ”do things he could be proud of.”

These business men know where the smart money is going, and now that you know, you can position yourself to profit.

Right now people from all walks of life are enjoying success with network marketing by unleashing the power of Knowledge.

How about you ? Are you ready to make your move? If so, don’t wait any longer.

If Warren Buffet, Donald Trump, Robert Kiyosaki, Paul Zane Pilzer and Richard Branson are into network marketing and they are Billionaires why aren’t you?

I know when Warren Buffet started to buy Silver everyone jumped in that market. Why have you stayed out of Network Marketing?

Well stay tuned for the next article “ How to find the right Network Marketing company.” To my faithful readers, as long as you keep reading, I will reveal the secrets to you of this industry. Just what the heavy hitters of the industry do not want you to know about.

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82 John May 27, 2011 at 5:38 am

This is in response to Lazy Man a.k.a. Super Dale a.k.a Dave’s accusation that I lied about A Harvard Business School article:

http://billpalte.ws/billsupdates/prelaunch-mlm-harvard-business-school-review/

This article is credited to the Harvard Business School.

Network Marketing is being taught at more than 200 colleges, including Harvard Business School. After Extensive research into the network marketing industry, Harvard Business School developed three criteria that a network marketing company must have in order to make it a most desirable opportunity. They are as follows:

1) The company must be at least 18 months old.

2) The company must have a product that is highly consumable. Having a product that is highly consumable means repeated sales, thereby guaranteeing customer loyalty versus a one-time sale and having to source new customers.

3) It needs to be a “ground floor opportunity”. Harvard Business School suggests that in order for the opportunity to qualify as ground floor the number of existing reps must be less than 1% of the total population of the country where the company is operating. In the United States, this figure is equal to 1.5 million people. If the company has less than 100,000 distributors, Harvard Business School considers it to be ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME opportunity.

In addition, Harvard Business School states there are four distinct stages of growth in a network marketing company. They are as follows:

1) Foundation- This usually last approximately six months and is when a company develops its products and marketing plan.

2) Concentration-This period lasts approximately 2 to 4 years from when the distributor network is started.

3) Momentum- This period lasts 2-4 years also. This is when the company experiences phenomenal growth and distributorships’ businesses explode. It is during this period that the company virtually sweeps the nation. When a company’s sales reach 50 million, it reaches what is called critical mass(Sales go vertically right off the graph)

For example, when Herbalife reached $50 million, sales jumped to $151 million in only 12 months and they added over 800,000 new distributors to their organization. Say an organization is producing a bonus check in the amount of $1,000.00 per month. When the company reaches critical mass, distributors automatically experience a 10 fold increase in their earnings. In other words a $1,000.00 check per month becomes $10,000.00 per month. This is the reason for getting involved on the ground floor, so you will experience the benefits of explosive growth

4) Stability- This is the period that lasts for the life of the company. A network marketing company that is dedicated to the success of its distributors will experience longevity, thereby insuring that an active distributorship will realize continued earnings growth

So, based on this data, the people that are preaching about waiting until a company is 4 years old lose out on the true, high dollar positions. If you are NOT in by year 4, you will make money BUT the upline makes SUBSTANTIALLY more money…because of their position.

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83 Nathan May 27, 2011 at 5:50 am

Nicely said john! Here’s an idea for lazy boy…. lazy boy, you are known as a person that hates network marketing. Obviously u are hard headed even when third party involvement (abc prime-time) proves that our product works. It’s fine I’m sorta the same way. You have to admit tho… this has been one tough product to analyze in a negative way. What if you actually decided that Protandim works or at least try it out for a month or two. What if you felt a positive difference and decided to become a distributor. Because of ur reputation, ur decision would get alot of your followers attention and therefore have one of the fastest growing networks in the company. Think about it…. “holy s***! Lazy man has actually joined a networking company! This must be a winner!” Ps sorry for any grammatical mistakes. I’m using my cell phone

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84 John May 27, 2011 at 5:53 am

Dave,
The American Heart Association Journal, Circulation, has 4 articles on Protandim… I’m sure our resident cardiologist, Dr. Lazy Man and Money, will refute the findings of an independent agency such as the AHA, after all, they aren’t really trying to get your heart healthy…are they?

Here is the link to take to your cardiologist: http://www.ahajournals.org/cgi/search?journalcode=all&fulltext=protandim

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85 John May 27, 2011 at 6:03 am

Lazy Man said, “The point to takeaway and apply to LifeVantage and Protandim is to not take the presence of peer-reviewed articles on Pubmed, an aggregator of journals some of very low quality, as any kind of proof.”

I ask all who have suffered reading so far:
Where would you go to find clinical proof that an all-natural supplement is being studied?

Answer: http://www.pubmed.gov You take PEER REVIEWED ARTICLES to your doctor and see if they agree with the findings in the article. That is my challenge to all of you poor souls who have read these nauseating posts. I know I’m the culprit, now PLEASE go talk to a medical professional.

If I’m wrong, then millions of dollars in research is wrong and it is all a big scam to bilk you out of…$40? Please. Go talk to your oncologist (with the skin cancer studies); go talk to your cardiologist (with the PULMONARY HYPERTENSION studies);

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86 John May 27, 2011 at 6:07 am

Nathan. I bet I’m blowin up your phone, sorry. I couldn’t sleep and this is just too fun! See you in Anaheim. Drop me a line and my wife and I will take you to dinner.

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87 Nathan May 27, 2011 at 6:11 am

John they’re so scared of being proven wrong that they won’t bother. Trust me I’ve tried but with real people. People are willing to spend thousands of dollars on chemically engineered medicine that has severe side effects but when it comes to the natural herbal remedies that God put on this earth it almost seems like people refuse to feel better and rather have their wallets drained.

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88 Nathan May 27, 2011 at 6:17 am

I couldnt sleep either so I decided to catch up on this never ending dispute. Thanks for the invite! My girlfriend and I are planning on going. See u there!

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89 John May 27, 2011 at 6:19 am

Dave posted:
“Yes lazyman, I noticed that about John too. He has trouble directly answering a question. Its obvious that he is squirming. I thought he was just brainwashed but now he is showing that he has been groomed to manipulate the innocent.”

Make no mistake gentlemen–I am not brainwashed. Like I’ve posted numerous times, I TOOK THE ARTICLES TO MY DOCTOR(s). They validated EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.

All of you doubters, haters, skeptics and nay-sayers need to do the same. DON’T LISTEN TO ME. DON’T LISTEN TO LAZY MAN. TAKE THE PEER REVIEWS TO YOUR PHYSICIAN.

And, Lazy Man… get on Nathan’s team immediately. He knows a good thing when he saw the ABC Primetime. Get out your wallet, swipe your card and hang on for the ride. I talked to an economist who predicts Protandim will have a 7 year momentum stage… Get in the car, Lazy Man…Dave…Super Dale…UnderCoverBlogger…J Money…

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90 Lazy Man and Money May 27, 2011 at 10:10 am

John Bowers said,

“I don’t have millions of dollars in research grants to study Protandim, your taxpayer dollars have done that already.”

I still haven’t seen the source behind this claim. I asked for the source and John once again has eluded the questions. He’ll probably stand up and again say it was the National Institute of Health and the American Heart Association, when I already pointed out that the grants were for other projects, not Protandim.

John said,

“I would like to personally thank the 13 preferred customers I’ve helped as a result of this blog, who have done their intelligent research, taken the peer-reviewed articles to their physicians and have happily begun taking Protandim.”

I would like to thank the thousands of others who got the message. “This company had poured all it’s resources into bringing CMX-1152 to market, had the deal fall through, and then in the span of a couple of months came up with some basic herbs as a substitute that happens to do exactly the same thing.” Many potential LifeVantage distributors will do what SuperDale did, research the product, come here, and realize that it is a scam. I can only help the people with logic and reason.

I’m quite confident that those 13 preferred customers have taken the peer-reviewed articles to their physicians. Bring us some kind of proof of this. Why isn’t there a single physician, not associated with LifeVantage willing to go on record about Protandim?

John said,

“The fact remains, without Dave and Lazy Man being shot in a rocket to the moon, they will not believe we landed there. These two half-educated nit wits probably still believe the world is flat. Without traveling the globe, they will never believe. “

The difference is a burden of proof. The burden of proof is on LifeVantage to show that Protandim has any benefit to humans. I could claim that I beat Lebron James in a game of one-on-one last week. You are going to want to see the proof right? You don’t want to flashes of me scoring with a fuzzy somewhat tall person barely in the picture. That’s what LifeVantage is feeding you.

John, the Lockness Monster doesn’t exist until you can show him to us. We are large scale, placebo controled, human trials – not 8 or even 100 studies showing that Protandim is no more effective than a multivitamin.

John said,

“Lazy Man, I have to admit I mistakenly stated, ‘They have NO peer-reviewed studies backing up their product. NOT ONE’ in reference to MonaVie Active(tm). I’m not sure what that has to do with Protandim”

I thought I explained it fairly well. It proves a couple of valuable points. 1) You don’t look up half this stuff before making the claims, and hence make errors. I don’t want to say that it shows you are full of mistakes, because that’s only partially true. It’s just about time that you came to admit one rather than just ignore it. 2) It shows how companies can get their products to appear to be scientific for the purposes of providing distributors, who often have little scientific background, sell the product to other distributors and preferred customers, who also often have little scientific background. If you don’t see this, even after Paul Myhill admitted “encouraging” it for this very reason, I can’t help you.

I’m not trying to compare the two products in any way, except that they are both MLMs and both rely on distributors to make unsubstantiated medical claims.

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91 Lazy Man and Money May 27, 2011 at 12:00 pm

John said,

“I must be getting tired…my thread above should have read: Lazy Man and Money has committed libel by accusing the American Heart Association and the National Institutes of Health, along with Ohio State University, of misappropriating funds… THAT will get interesting. Let’s see if it holds water.”

I didn’t accuse the AHA or NIH of any wrong-doing. They gave out money for a reason – it just wasn’t to study to Prodandim. Once they give out the money, they can’t control what researchers do with it. I accuse of LifeVantage for misleading customers and investors by implying that these grants were given to study Protandim. Not only did I accuse them of that, but I have proven it on my site. I guess I will have to prove it here as well.

The study is question is the one titled: “Protandim attenuates intimal hyperplasia in human saphenous veins cultured ex vivo via a catalase-dependent pathway.” This is commonly referred to as the Ohio State study, yet such language is a misnomer since it is just a few people associated with the university.

On Page 17 of the accepted manuscript the researches disclose the sources of funding:

Sources of Funding: This work was supported by AHA 0555538U and 0655323B to K.J.G and HL63744, HL65608 and HL38324 to J.L.Z.

You could also search Google for the grant numbers and see that they were used for other projects. However, I’ll bring that research to you:

I’m going to quote Vogel who on my site put it most succinctly: “Two grants were listed for Keith Gooch (AHA 0555538U and AHA 0655323B). These are both old grants that Gooch received to fund research unrelated to Protandim. He merely chose of his own accord to divert those funds for the Protandim study. The evidence can be found in this 2010 paper in which Gooch listed the identical grant numbers for research that was, again, completely unrelated to Protandim.”

Since I am only allowed one link before J. Money’s spam filter goes off I will continue with the other three AHA grants in the next comment.

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92 Lazy Man and Money May 27, 2011 at 12:01 pm

Again, quoting Vogel for his succinctness: “Three grants were listed for Jay Zwier (HL63744, HL65608 and HL38324). All 3 of these are old grants that Zwier received to fund research unrelated to Protandim. He merely chose of his own accord to divert those funds for the Protandim study. The evidence can be found in this 2009 JBC paper in which Zwier listed the identical grant numbers for research that was completely unrelated to Protandim.

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93 Lazy Man and Money May 27, 2011 at 12:01 pm

Finally, the NIH gives us details on what the grants were intended to be used for. Although again, I have to post them one comment at a time since each has a link.

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94 Lazy Man and Money May 27, 2011 at 12:03 pm

5P01HL065608-10: OXIDANTS AND NITRIC OXIDE IN POST-ISCHEMIC HEART INJURY

You can easily the associate the grant numbers and the product numbers together:
Grant: HL65608
Project: 5P01HL065608-10

The description asking for money has no mention of Protandim. This proves that the grants were not intended for the study of Protandim.

A click on the RESULTS tab on this grant shows 25 studies that this money was used for. One of the 25 makes mention of Protandim.

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95 Lazy Man and Money May 27, 2011 at 12:03 pm

1R29HL038324-01: MEASUREMENT OF FREE RADICAL GENERATION IN THE HEART

You can easily the associate the grant numbers and the product numbers together:
Grant: HL38324
Project: 5R01HL038324-20

A click on the RESULTS tab on this grant shows 13 studies that this money was used for. None of them makes any mention of Protandim. One has to wonder why this grant was listed when it seems like it wasn’t used. It looks like an obvious error.

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96 Lazy Man and Money May 27, 2011 at 12:04 pm

5R01HL063744-09: OXYGEN RADICALS AND NITRIC OXIDE IN POSTISCHEMIC INJURY

You can easily the associate the grant numbers and the product numbers together:
Grant: HL63744:
Project: 5R01HL063744-09

A click on the RESULTS tab on this grant shows 25 studies that this money was used for. One of the 25 makes mention of Protandim.

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97 Lazy Man and Money May 27, 2011 at 12:37 pm

What can we conclude from the above? We can conclude that AHA and the NIH are not funding studies on Protandim. They are funding studies on the things in the grant titles and descriptions – none of which include a word about Protandim. The researchers are the ones who use the grant money as they see fit.

Paul Myhill, inventor of Protandim, said:

“I believe LifeVantage’s current science program to encourage or promote issue-specific studies is a sound strategy indeed. Since Big Pharma (through its proxy, the FDA) doesn’t allow supplements to make any disease claims, I think it’s important for the scientific literature to make those claims for us.”

The question the consumer should be asking here is, “How is LifeVantage ‘encouraging’ researchers like Jay Zwier to use their product?” I guess I’ll never know if LifeVantage’s form of “encouraging” involves dropping off the keys to a new sports car at Jay Zeier’s door or not.

One thing we do know is that Jay Zwier isn’t a fan of Protandim. He hasn’t used it in any of his other research. Protandim’s been around for more than 5 years, clearly Jay Zwier could have used it in all of his studies if his intent was to study Protandim. Or he could have applied for a grant to actually study Protandim. None of this has happened.

The key point that John Bowers, and other LifeVantage distributors are trying to make is that reputable organizations like the AHA and the NIH actually care about Protandim… and care enough to put their funding dollars into it. It seems true on the surface, but you dig underneath and find out that it is all meant to mislead distributors, customers, and investors.

That’s just one example of many that have come up in the comments of my site.

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98 John May 27, 2011 at 1:11 pm

It would seem that J Money and Lazy Man are blocking my postings… Interesting

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99 John May 27, 2011 at 1:44 pm

So… to draw your conclusion with a crayon: Reputable organizations like the American Heart Association and the National Institutes of Health actually DON’T care about Protandim and HAVE NOT funded studies on PROTANDIM? Is that your latest vomit? Really?

C’mon Lazy Man, you cannot disprove something that is proven. You can’t limit the conclusions made by PhD’s and scientists because you found something else to talk about.

Good Grief! The American Heart Association has 4 published articles on Protandim in their own journal! Not the 5 herbs in Protandim, the patented product Protandim. Get real, Lazy! You are going to proven wrong by the scientific community no matter what kind of dirt you try to uncover. This medical breakthrough is changing lives and the more you keep digging, the more gold gets uncovered.

And AGAIN, To all 37 new viewers (Not the thousands that Lazy Man lied about above): TAKE THESE PEER-REVIEWS TO YOUR DOCTOR AND HAVE YOUR DOCTOR VALIDATE THEM AND INTERPRET THEM FOR YOUR OWN HEALTH.

You don’t get that advice from ‘other’ network marketing companies…

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100 SuperDale May 27, 2011 at 2:39 pm

John,
For the record….

MY NAME IS DALE MEREDITH. I LIVE IN SYRACUSE, UTAH. I’M A MICROSOFT TRAINER WORKING IN SLC, UTAH. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS DALE.MEREDITH@GMAIL.COM. I HAVE A BLOGSITE: dalemeredith.blogspot.com and myfamilysafety.blogspot.com

Hopefully there isn’t any more questions about Lazy-Man AKA SuperDale. This just shows me that:

1) You ASSuME way too much
2) You are trying to mislead folks

Oh, and John…”your friend loves you, that is why he/she wants you to take Protandim.”… A friend doesn’t show his love by coming around after it got out in my neighborhood that I had a heart issue, to sell me a product or get me to be a distributor. He would have done that months before…he saw an opportunity.

I’m done here folks…Lazy-Man- “thanks for educating me and making sense” I’ll not trust a product the company will NOT claim would help, cure, fix (whatever), yet it’s pushers claim will fix everything… This product reminds me of how excited folks would get when the snake-oil salesman, who had a cure for everything would come to town…yeah, I said it… I’m OUT!

-SuperDale

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101 John May 28, 2011 at 2:39 pm

Thanks for your candor, SuperDale. There are now 2 honest people blogging here. If you were offended by someone in your neighborhood finding out about your heart condition and then offering you information, I’m sorry. From the beginning of this nonsensical blog I tried to get people to read, not interject opinions. Here is a link for you, if this site allows it:

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/search?journalcode=circulationaha&fulltext=protandim

Take it to your cardiologist. Is that too much to ask? If my language or my delivery of my message has offended you, don’t let ME get in the way of your health. Please, just read for yourself.

“Treatment of SuHx rats with the anti-oxidant drug Protandim did not affect the RVSP but resulted in improved RV function on ultrasound and less RV fibrosis.”

“the herbal supplement Protandim prevented a loss of myocardial…”

“Induction of myocardial nuclear factor E2-related factor 2 and heme-oxygenase 1 with a dietary supplement (Protandim) prevented fibrosis and capillary loss and preserved RV function despite continuing pressure overload.”

“By inducing nuclear factor E2-related factor 2 and heme-oxygenase 1, the herbal supplement Protandim prevented a loss of myocardial capillaries, reduced the degree of RV fibrosis, and prevented RV dilation and loss of myocardial contractility. ”

This is the information I have on Protandim and the American Heart Association.

I hope it helps you.

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102 J. Money May 28, 2011 at 3:25 pm

Wow this is becoming a lively debate! Checking in for first time in a few days, you guys are spending a lot of time on here ;) Feel free to continue debating as you like, but just a couple of quick things worth keeping in mind:

1) If you comment with 2+ links, or if your comment is SUPER long, it auto. goes into “Spam” folder. Sometimes I catch it, but most times I don’t — I’m not deleting anyone’s comments.

2) Please do not use this post as a billboard for your company. Feel free to say anything you’d like, and debate for ever – that’s totally cool – but I will delete/edit any comments with promotions, phone numbers, etc.

Carry on, good sirs…

Oh, 1 other thing – try and not *bold* anything, when you mess up it bolds all following comments. Thx.

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103 Dave May 28, 2011 at 7:08 pm

John, Liar? It sounds like you are talking to me. If you are I resent that. I didn’t say anything untrue. Just because someone does not agree with you, does not make them a liar. As you attack anyone here that doesn’t agree with you. How insecure. I am here to state my opinion just as you are. I’m not here trying to hook people by giving them a bunch of shit that someone else told and sold me. You are here to advertise. I’m not. Everything LazyMan, Dale and I have said is TRUE. You are not a business man like us. You are a bottom feeder trying to eat like the big fish. There is an honest way of doing that and you are not doing it.

FYI, I TOOK PROTANDIM FOR 1 MONTH. I DID NOT FEEL ANYTHING FROM IT. NOTHING GOOD OR BAD. SO PUT THAT TOWARDS YOUR MIRACLE PILL STATISTICS.

You and Protandim deserve each other. You are both a couple of JOKES!

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104 JOE May 28, 2011 at 7:16 pm

I think someone needs to write to the American Heart Association and let them know how this guy John (Snake oil salesman, lol) is throwing their name around.

I TOOK PROTANDIM TOO. IT DID NOTHING FOR ME EITHER !

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105 John May 28, 2011 at 8:49 pm

Okay, Joe and Dale, the chipmunks. You squeak good but you have not watched the ABC Primetime. Please do. I’ve already written to the AHA and they have pointed me to their Circulation Journal and the validated peer-reviews (4 of them) on Protandim.

Now, go to the link that I gave SuperDale. That is the American Heart Association’s own Circulation Journal, a peer-reviewed journal that is read by and supported by cardiologists and a multitude of other respected medical personnel.

Now go to Free Radical Biology & Medicine Journal and type in Protandim…

Now go to PlosOne Journal and type in Protandim. It is an interactive open-access journal for the communication of all peer-reviewed scientific and medical research.

Now go to Department of Biomedical Engineering @ The Ohio State University and see what they say about Protandim.

Now go to the Department of Pediatrics, Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center, Paul L. Foster School of Medicine, El Paso, TX. Earlier, he was associated with Department of Neurology, Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA and see what they have to say about Protandim.

Now go to the Divisions of Pulmonary and Critical Care, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA and see what they have to say about Protandim.

Now go to the Department of Pharmacology, Toxicology & Neuroscience, Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center, Shreveport, Louisiana, United States of America, and see what they have to say about Protandim.

Now go to the Division of Endocrinology, Department of Medicine, University of Colorado Denver, Aurora, CO and see what they have to say about Protandim.

Now go to the Webb-Waring Institute for Cancer, Aging and Antioxidant Research, University of Colorado Denver Health Sciences Center, Denver, CO and see what they have to say about Protandim.

No matter how all you nay-sayers critique, assume, bash or try to opine on Protandim: It is real. Millions of dollars–taxpayer dollars–have been spent studying Protandim and Millions more are being spent as you read.

Good day sirs and ma’ams. The snake-oil guy is going to retire for the evening… read y’all tomorrow.

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106 Lazy Man and Money May 28, 2011 at 10:07 pm

Hey, I’ve been busy the last couple of days so I probably have lots to respond to. In the meantime I wrote up my review of how neither the American Heart Association (AHA) nor the National Institute of Health (NIH) are directing any their funding dollars towards Protandim.

Protandim, the Ohio Study, American Heart Association (AHA) and National Institute of Health (NIH) Funding

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107 John May 29, 2011 at 12:26 am

I followed that link. Once again and again and again, you are wrong.

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108 Catherine May 29, 2011 at 12:49 am

Why on earth does Lazy Man and Money have such a vendetta against Protandim? Mr. Lazy’s 5/28 post points to “evidence” that is not worth getting into. Basically, what he’s wanting is for the makers of Protandim to say something like, “a study was done by Mr. Researcher X from AHA” instead of saying it was done by AHA? It seems like a lot of wasted energy to me, Mr. Lazy. John, way to hang in there. By the way, just because a person doesn’t notice a result, doesn’t mean a supplement isn’t helping. For example, we know that apples are good for us, but we don’t notice anything new by eating them one at a time. We continue to eat them though. Why is that? If Protandim had no patents or research to back it up, you’d be complained about that too. This entire website here seems to be a big waste of energy . . . it’s purpose is to disparage all mlm companies, correct? So then what do you recommend people do to get ahead financially besides starting an affordable mlm business- build sensationalist websites like this one that just spreads negative energy, but doesn’t solve any problems? Yeah, that’s what we need more of in America! (Not!) I’m still a proud distributor of Protandim (www.cudiscovery.com) and intend to stay that way. As for participating anymore in this ridiculous website, no thanks.

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109 Dave May 29, 2011 at 10:11 am

John, You are still riding that wave from 6 years ago man. That’s when Primetime did the story. And your other references are old too. Can’t you see these what your leaders are feeding you? Its old news that no one cares about. It’s done, they are just trying to keep the train from derailing, just as you are. But you both know it’s coming.
Please remember you can still take the five herbs separately for pennies on the dollar. You have to admit something positive will come from it. NO AUTO SHIPS, NO WASTING TIME.
Speaking of wasting time, John and innocent Catherine;
Don’t forget to calculate on your balance sheet..
YOUR personal time, gas (Anaheim), conferences (hotels), meetings, phone calls, postage, marketing materials, and most of all, YOUR hard earned cash to get into this ($500 OR MORE? RIGHT?) plus an auto ship EXPENSE every month RIGHT? Do you really think you will earn 30, 40, or 50k the next 5-10 years? Oh wait John’s economist said a 7 year momentum rate. THEN WHAT JOHN? Crash and burn time? Why only 7 years?
You would make more money selling hotdogs on the corner, Catherine. Really, I did when I didn’t have much to work with. Don’t give people your money to make money.

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110 Lazy Man and Money May 29, 2011 at 10:28 am

I wanted to address the Warren Buffett comment #79 made on May 27, 2011 at 5:28 am. I had already shown, with a quote from Bloomberg, in comment #45 that Buffet specifically doesn’t mention MLM amongst the best investments he’s made.

John Bowers comment there is an a quote:

“Did you know that some of the most successful Companies, were built by people just like you, who went on to earn millions and millions of dollars?”

I did a little Google search for that quote and found a number of MLM sites posting that whole story on their website. However, it is attributed to no mainstream news or business source that I could find. In addition John diddn’t cite his source. It seems like the same game of “Someone in MLM starts a rumor and we all repeat it because it sounds legit.”

It’s worth mentioning that the article that John Bowers quoted here seems to have at least a few oddities in it:

- The part that John bolded to strengthen his claim about Warren Buffett spelled his name wrong… multiple times. That should tell you this didn’t come from Forbes or Bloomberg.

- It’s funny that they mention that at one time Noni was unheard of until “[it was] introduced to the World through Network Marketing.” That’s why you see and hear everyone talking about Noni. Ooops you don’t.

- It claims that the two largest cosmetic companies are MLM (Avon and Mary Kay). Mary Kay seems to be privately owned, thus we can’t establish a market capitalization. Estee Lauder (symbol EL) has a market valuation much higher than Avon. L’Oreal (symbol OR) seems to be about four times bigger than Avon.

- The article makes a point of “First of all, at $125,000+ per share of stock in his company, he knows that the average person just cannot afford this. However, just about anyone can afford to start their own business in Network Marketing.” Warren Buffet can control the price per share of the stock of his company. If he wanted the average person to invest in it, he’d simply just split the stock. Also, the average person can buy the B shares of the company, Berkshire Hathaway, for $78 a share. You can graph the two stocks and they’ve performed similarly (essentially overlap) over the last ten years, because they are the same.

The rest of the article seems to fail to address the glaring fact that Buffett chose to buy Pampered Chef. He did not choose to become a distributor. I couldn’t find Donald Trump, Richard Branson, or Robert Kiyosaki being an active MLM distributor either. There’s a big difference between investing in Wal-Mart and take a job there as a greeter. Articles like the one that John Bowers gave seem to purposely conflate the two in an attempt to mislead people.

Finally, I should add that I know about Warren Buffet and Pampered Chef. (I have written about it before: Warren Buffett’s Pampered Chef and MonaVie.) I have nothing against MLM in general. Avon, Tupperware, and Pampered Chef all sell products that are similar to what can be found elsewhere (Revlon, Rubbermaid, and William Sonoma) and for similar prices and, to my knowledge, not one of them has ever been tied to an illegal health claim. The benefits of the products can be objectively observed. It is irresponsible for a company like LifeVantage to employ a bunch of salespeople who don’t even know their product.

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111 Lazy Man and Money May 29, 2011 at 10:43 am

John Bowers in comment #80 at May 27, 2011 at 5:38AM said,

This is in response to Lazy Man a.k.a. Super Dale a.k.a Dave’s accusation that I lied about A Harvard Business School article:

http : //billpalte.ws / billsupdates / prelaunch-mlm-harvard-business-school-review/

This article is credited to the Harvard Business School.

[Note: I had to make the above link not look like a link to pass the J. Money's spam filter...]

Unfortunately the article doesn’t appear to be associated with Harvard Business School in any way. Like the article above on Warren Buffett, there’s no citation of any reputable source.

This website Faces By Trish has essentially same article, often word-for-word without the mentions of Harvard Business School. It seems like John Bowers got suckered into what appears to be Bill Palte’s lies.

Sometimes it is hard to tell what is worse… John’s inability to actually do 20 seconds of solid research or his spreading of false information like this. John, it isn’t difficult to research this. If the article doesn’t cite a specific reputable source, you should dig a bit to find out where the information came from. Here digging is extremely easy… just find a sentence and cut and paste it into Google with quotes around it. If you see a bunch of MLM owners posting the article and again no citation, it is likely marketing material created with the purpose of mislead others just like you have been mislead, John.

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112 Lazy Man and Money May 29, 2011 at 11:14 am

John Bowers said,

The American Heart Association Journal, Circulation, has 4 articles on Protandim… I’m sure our resident cardiologist, Dr. Lazy Man and Money, will refute the findings of an independent agency such as the AHA, after all, they aren’t really trying to get your heart healthy…are they?

Here is the link to take to your cardiologist: http://www.ahajournals.org/cgi/search?journalcode=all&fulltext=protandim

In a classic John Bowers move, he is trying to mislead you. If you look into all “4 articles” they are the same article. This was the article that showed up in the Pubmed search: “Chronic pulmonary artery pressure elevation is insufficient to explain right heart failure.” (Bogaard HJ, Natarajan R, Henderson SC, Long CS, Kraskauskas D, Smithson L, Ockaili R, McCord JM, Voelkel NF.)

John has asked that you read the studies. I suggest you do the same because the full text of the article is available. One thing you’ll quickly note is that the conclusion of the study says absolutely nothing about Protandim. It doesn’t even mention it. The reason why, is simple. The people aren’t researching Protandim. They are researching right heart failure. If there was anything noteworthy about Protandim, it would have been mentioned in the conclusion.

Furthermore, when you read the study you find that Protandim was not used. It was an alcohol-based extract of Protandim. Last I checked that wasn’t for sale. Furthermore it was injected into rats rather than introduced in their food. Last I checked, LifeVantage does not recommend injecting Protandim into your body. Last I checked LifeVantage wasn’t selling their products to rats. (Actually, metaphorically speaking I would probably lose a debate on that subject.) Finally, the amount of quasi-Protandim-ish is the equivalent of taking a full bottle, when adjusting for the weight of a rat and a weight of a human. It couldn’t have less relevance.

Your cardiologist is going to enjoy a good laugh when you bring this into him/her.

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113 Lazy Man and Money May 29, 2011 at 11:33 am

John Bowers has made one or two good points in this thread. He’s asked that you take this information to your doctor and ask him/her about it. He does this because he knows there’s a chance the doctor will say, “There’s nothing in here that will hurt you” or something ambiguous that will lead you to buy the product.

It’s a very common sales technique. You probably see it as spam in your email account every day. It costs nothing for spammers to send out hundreds of thousands of emails about a miracle weight-loss pill or a perhaps-less-than-legal online pharmacy offering Viagra. They know that 99.99% won’t click on it or follow through. They don’t care about those. They only care about the 20 people who do and end up spending $50 a pop. It’s $1000 in their pocket.

I get the same thing with companies sending me press releases. I get a couple dozen every day that I never asked for. J. Money and other personal finance bloggers get them too. The companies send them out in the hopes that a few of use will pick up the story.

What I propose here is simple. Do what John Bowers says. Take the information to your doctor. However, come back here and report back on what the doctor said. John is hoping that you’ll just move on when the doctor pans it. If your doctor gives a positive response to the information, be prepared to ask him to go on record with his response. Otherwise, MLM distributors with an interest in making sales will come on here post its praises, knowing that a verbal conversation between an anonymous person and an anonymous doctor can not be verified.

So take the John Bowers challenge. Go out there and ask your doctor. Come back here with what the doctor said and his name and contact information. That’s fair, right?

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114 Lazy Man and Money May 29, 2011 at 12:00 pm

Catherine asked

“Why on earth does Lazy Man and Money have such a vendetta against Protandim?”

You might as well ask, “Why on earth do the police have such a vendetta against bank robbers?”

I don’t like to see people being taken advantage of. Protandim costs $40-50 a month, or around $550 a year. If I convinced your boss to give you a $700 raise would you take it? After taxes that would put about $550 in your pocket. I can’t convince your boss to give you a $700 raise, but I can put an extra $550 in your pocket by preventing you from being scammed by the company.

Catherine said,

“Basically, what he’s wanting is for the makers of Protandim to say something like, “a study was done by Mr. Researcher X from AHA” instead of saying it was done by AHA? It seems like a lot of wasted energy to me, Mr. Lazy.”

Ummm, no Mr. Researcher X is not from the AHA. What should be said is that the AHA doesn’t approve of any funding going towards Protandim research. Or, more appropriately, leave all mention of the AHA

Catherine said,

“By the way, just because a person doesn’t notice a result, doesn’t mean a supplement isn’t helping. For example, we know that apples are good for us, but we don’t notice anything new by eating them one at a time. We continue to eat them though. Why is that?”

It doesn’t mean it is helping either. Perhaps my prayers are magical and have healing powers too. Are you going to send me money for them?

Would you agree that there’s a lot more research done on apples? Would you agree that they are priced fairly competitively with other fruit in their respective stores? Would you agree that apples exist in nature and aren’t man-made like Protandim? I’m just pointing out a few of the many problems with your argument here.

Catherine said,

“If Protandim had no patents or research to back it up, you’d be complained about that too.”

I wouldn’t care about the lack of patents. There are a lot of quacky patents that don’t mean anything. Yes, if there was no research I’d complain about that. The point is that there is no relevant research. Plus what they are calling research is all being done with LifeVantage’s Joe McCord and not on how the product is intended to be used. What this boils down to is them having no research and me complaining about it.

Let’s take an example of something with enough research, Viagra. You don’t see me claiming that is a scam right?

Catherine said,

“it’s purpose is to disparage all mlm companies, correct? So then what do you recommend people do to get ahead financially besides starting an affordable mlm business- build sensationalist websites like this one that just spreads negative energy, but doesn’t solve any problems? Yeah, that’s what we need more of in America! (Not!)”

I don’t disparage all MLM companies. Where did you invent this crazy notion?

I have a whole page of thousands of ways to save money to help people get ahead financially. It has been proven that more than 99% of people in MLM companies lose money. That’s a problem that needs to be solved. Perhaps America wouldn’t be having any problems if it weren’t this problem. I’m trying to solve it by educating people.

In the information economy, I believe education is the best tool for financial freedom.

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115 John May 29, 2011 at 12:27 pm

Hi Dave.

This actually will be my final post as I don’t have the time or energy (even on Protandim) to prove every statement, sub-statement, sub-sub statement, etc. that universities make or the patent office has listed or how funding has been done on Protandim. It is rubbish to prove that which is already proven by them already. I’m not getting paid to write a research paper, unlike Lazy Dude and J Money. They get paid to spark a debate.

A Doctor Edwards on Lazy Man’s other website completely slam-dunked Lazy Man in one article. And, I rest my case. Its ridiculous to allow Lazy Man this forum to denounce an excellent product, Protandim, and the impeccable studies and scientists behind it. It is also completely ignorant to argue the point that several billionaires are involved in MLM/Network Marketing companies. If they are the leaders, follow them. If they have the same goals that I do, I want to follow them.

Dave, to address your analogy of selling hot dogs on a corner: In an eight hour shift, you’ve sold 100 hotdogs at 1.50 each, for a gross of $150/day, you could say, right? We all know that in business, the bottom line doesn’t count day-to-day, it is long term growth. Let’s not get into self-employment taxes, expenses, licensing, insurance, etc. The hot dog guy will take home minimum wage, at best, over the course of a summer. Who wants to stand on a corner in a snow storm? Seasonal work. No thanks.

Now, my NETWORK MARKETING company pays weekly. I was ‘in the black’ my first week with a NET profit; My financials show a 190 percent growth, PER MONTH… If I was losing money in this network marketing, would I be able to continue? No. Now I’m into my 6th month and the business model has yet to fail.

I am bringing in, after taxes, after expenses, a lucrative $1800/month! For a part-time ‘job’? This is a great business model with a company that has done it right. (More importantly, I am now teaching the distributors on my team the correct business model and watching them have the same, if not better results.) By the way, that is just one bonus paid on the 15th of each month. I am not including in any of these figures the weekly paychecks that are determinant on my weekly effort–That would show a net profit that is double, sometimes triple what I just reported.

Dave, our system is very simple: you invite, we present, they decide. If a distributor is spending thousands of dollars on a typical retail distribution effort, that is their fault. LifeVantage has a system that is proven to work for the majority of people who get involved; not the minority of people.

As a publicly traded company, we have shareholders that must be addressed. Would a CEO really begin a model doomed for failure in one year? How about 3 years? No, the shareholders want longevity. The shareholders want long-term growth, and of course, they want a profit.

What is the basis for any good company? a good product. Honestly, tell me you would not jump out of your skin for a FREE expose’ by ABC Primetime to launch your product?! We were unprepared in 2005 for that kind of exposure. We were managed by doctors at that time, not businessman, and it reflected in our stymied growth. The clinical studies referenced in the ABC Primetime video are just now coming out, that is why we are beginning to show excellent growth. Peer-reviews take time and a tremendous amount of effort. LifeVantage can’t dictate if or when a university concludes their studies, nor can they demand what disease the study is done on… These are independent universities who found that oxidative stress is a contributing factor in whatever malfunction they are studying and that Protandim is proven to reduce that stress. Simple, really. With that knowledge, they study more…

You asked for human trials, I do know of several doctors who are going through the process to begin human trials, but if and when those are approved by the regulatory agencies, I don’t know. Again, I am not the message here. I have tried to be the messenger and have been berated for offering the information… and then accused of not researching the information given my the agencies and universities offering the information in the first place…?

Kind of a viscous circle huh?

Yes, I’m an independent distributor for LifeVantage. If, like Doctor Edwards pointed out, there is a study saying Protandim doesn’t work like all the others said (hence, peer-reviewed science), then I will gladly give up my distributorship. That is not the case here. The doctors are ALL in agreement that Protandim reduces oxidative stress which is at the center of hundreds of diseases.

Can you truly find fault in selling a product that universities are saying works? I’m not the American Heart Association, LSU, Ohio State, Virginia Commonwealth, et al., I took all of these to my own physicians for verification. They validated them all. THEN, I got on board with being a distributor.

THAT is my message to all people: Take these peer-reviewed articles to your own doctor(s).
Simple.

Truly, God Bless You All, and to all a good day,
John Bowers, PRO 5, LifeVantage Independent Distributor

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116 Lazy Man and Money May 29, 2011 at 1:34 pm

John I understand that you don’t have the time to actually research your own product. Take this opportunity to be a decent human and resign from being a Protandim salesman until you can. I don’t even sell the product and I find the time. It’s about helping people and making sure that they get reliable, accurate information.

Could you be more specific about this “Doctor Edwards” on my other site? I have mentioned three: LazyManAndMoney.com, JuiceScam.com, and ProtandimScams.com. I just did a search on all three sites for comments written by anyone named “Edwards” and didn’t find anything close to it. It must be easy to rest your case on something that I can’t even find.

John Bowers said,

“Dave, our system is very simple: you invite, we present, they decide.”

Now we know why John doesn’t address any of the things that I brought up. They present a very one-sided view, one with many misleading half-truths designed to elicit the highest probable chance of a decision to join their business. The truth of the information that I provide is his enemy because people will see his presentation isn’t the actual truth. Then they don’t join and he doesn’t make money.

Sorry John, next time join a reputable business.

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117 Lazy Man and Money May 30, 2011 at 4:47 pm

John Bowers said,

As a publicly traded company, we have shareholders that must be addressed. Would a CEO really begin a model doomed for failure in one year? How about 3 years? No, the shareholders want longevity. The shareholders want long-term growth, and of course, they want a profit.

The important thing to note here is that if you look at the financial statements Protandim was losing money and was almost out of business before switching to a MLM model. In August of 2008 it was trading for 15 cents. In October, 2008 it announced it was going to MLM. When your alternative is going out of business, what do you have to lose.

It’s a good point that you brought up the job of LifeVantage CEO. You’d think that if it were a reputable product people would want to be CEO of the company. LifeVantage can’t seem to retain a CEO for the live of them. You made a comparison to Apple and Steve Jobs above. I don’t see Steve Jobs trying to get out of Apple.

Here’s a list of LifeVantage CEOs: (Using the great information provided by TonyC

7/1/2005 Lifeline Therapeutics, Inc. president and CEO Bill Driscoll resigns.
11/28/2005 Lifeline Therapeutics, Inc. announces Stephen K. Onody as CEO
11/30/2006 Stephen K. Onody tenders his resignation as CEO of Lifevantage Corporation. (Interestingly two days after his one year anniversary – probably got his stock options and left the sinking ship.)
12/21/2006 James J. Krejci becomes CEO of LifeVantage
8/30/2007 Lifevantage CEO James J. Krejci’s employment “ended.”
8/31/2007 James J. Krejci resigns from the board of directors of Lifevantage.

It gets a little more confusing after this time. I need to reference another article so I will continue in the next comment.

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118 Lazy Man and Money May 30, 2011 at 5:05 pm

According to the Denver Business Journal:

After James J. Krejci,
John Van Heuvelen took over as interim CEO in December 16, 2006. (Dates found using Google – Source on BusinessWeek.com)
Gene Copeland assumed control as Chief Operating Officer in September, 2007 (Dates found using Google – Source on BusinessWeek.com)
David W Brown became CEO in January of 2008
LifeVantage announced in January of 2011 that it is looking for a new CEO.

So to get back to John Bower’s quote

“As a publicly traded company, we have shareholders that must be addressed. Would a CEO really begin a model doomed for failure in one year? How about 3 years? No, the shareholders want longevity. The shareholders want long-term growth, and of course, they want a profit.

So what kind of longevity is LifeVantage giving shareholders. They had previously used a distribution model that works for thousands of products in GNC stores. Not only that, but the distribution model was how people buy almost every product they own including products at Best Buy, WalMart, and grocery stores. Clearly that’s more proven than the MLM model.

The problem is that the product doesn’t sell without the misleading marketing claims like John Bowers has shown here.

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119 John May 31, 2011 at 2:08 pm

Lazy Man, again you are misleading and LYING to your audience. You insinuate dishonesty in everyone’s research, you try to prove it through vague and misguided logic, your analogies are stupid, at best.

After queries sent to the American Heart Association, their officials have confirmed, in fact, that they are STILL researching Protandim. Of course, they don’t endorse ANY products, because in their words, “…funding of research does not imply American Heart Association endorsement or support. Everyone should review the literature pertaining to a particular product and make determinations solely through evidence based research results and not based on who provided the funding. Hopefully you can understand our position because of the massive amount of projects we fund. It is just not possible for us to allow any component of the American Heart Association to enter into any agreement or take any action that may imply support or endorsement of a specific commercial product, process, service or enterprise.”

Do you need it spelled out again, Lazy Cave Man? Here, in terms even a Lazy Cave Man can understand: THEY ARE STUDYING PROTANDIM! Draw your own conclusion that it is a big scam. Draw your own conclusion that it is misleading that independent distributors are telling people about the American Heart Association studying Protandim.

In response to your stupid idea that you know how to run a company:
If you knew ANYTHING about business, you would know that in order to have Protandim on the shelves of GNC and others requires MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to put it there and MILLIONS MORE to advertise, and MILLIONS MORE to distribute it… Oh, and you validate yourself by finding that out? Good grief. Duh.

If you were head of LifeVantage, you would have resigned as well when you couldn’t fund an advertising campaign, you only had one or two peer-reviewed studies to validate your product, etc. You, especially, Lazy Cave Man, wouldn’t have been able to stand the heat and responsibility of even one employee and their family losing their job. You have proven time and again that you are a joke.

I suppose you think AVON is a bad model? How about Mary Kay? How about Tupperware? How about Salad Master? How about TowneCraft? I can name 13 that have made it to over $1 billion in sales/year. You are truly ignorant to believe that MLM/Network Marketing is a bad business distribution model. That is why you have at least one of those products in your home!!!

If you seriously think that Warren Buffet, Robert Kioyosaki and Donald Trump are wrong, YOU’RE FIRED!

Network Marketing is here to stay, Lazy Cave Man. Get used to it.

Now, misleading statements by John Bowers? I have offered my rebuttal to all pertinent facts.

You, sir, have not responded to the most important one:
Why you continue to argue against the American Heart Association, Louisiana State University, Virginia Commonwealth University, Harvard Medical School, Texas Tech, and many others… Why? BECAUSE YOU GET PAID TO SPARK DEBATE! It doesn’t matter what is said, the more people that tune in to your flatulence, the more money you make!

You, sir, are misleading and misinforming and lying to people and they don’t even realize it.

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120 Lazy Man and Money May 31, 2011 at 3:31 pm

John,

Thanks for reiterating the point about the AHA studying Protandim. I think you said it three times in there including using some capital letters. I could say that I have a talking horse in my garage three times in capital letters and I don’t think that really helps anyone believe that is actually the case. The quote that you posted from the AHA only proves my point that the AHA does not endorse or support Protandim. The point of the LifeVantage press release was to falsely imply that endorsement and support.

Again I have conclusively shown using publicly available documents that the AHA had no intention of funding any research on Protandim. In addition, the AHA has not directed any of its funding for the study of the Protandim. What specific problems do you have with the logic in this paragraph? And please don’t shout, “THEY ARE STUDYING PROTANDIM!” again until you’ve proved my points here to be incorrect. Please feel free to use the publicly available documents as I have.

John said,

“If you knew ANYTHING about business, you would know that in order to have Protandim on the shelves of GNC and others requires MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to put it there and MILLIONS MORE to advertise, and MILLIONS MORE to distribute it…”

I love how people in debates point out some fact that neither party contests and tries to thump their chest that they are correct. I DO know this. I agree with this completely.

John said,

“If you were head of LifeVantage, you would have resigned as well when you couldn’t fund an advertising campaign, you only had one or two peer-reviewed studies to validate your product, etc. “

However, I would have also known that with a truly revolutionary product, I would be able to partner with a company that had the money in the bank to distribute and market the product. If it were truly a break-through product any number of nutraceutical and pharmaceutical companies would have been offering money for a piece of the company. When it went MLM in late October of 2008, it was trading for about 15 cents or a market-capitalization of around $12 million dollars. Any company that thought they possessed anything noteworthy would have bought them out. They could have even done a hostile takeover and still paid less than $30 million. That’s nothing to companies this size.

John said,

I suppose you think AVON is a bad model? How about Mary Kay? How about Tupperware? How about Salad Master? How about TowneCraft? I can name 13 that have made it to over $1 billion in sales/year. You are truly ignorant to believe that MLM/Network Marketing is a bad business distribution model. That is why you have at least one of those products in your home!!!

Ummm, no I have never said that any of the above companies have a bad model. In fact if you scroll up to my comment #108 on May 29th, I specifically pointed out two of the above companies (Avon and Tupperware) as well as added Pampered Chef as good examples of MLM companies. In fact my quote was:

“I have nothing against MLM in general. Avon, Tupperware, and Pampered Chef all sell products that are similar to what can be found elsewhere (Revlon, Rubbermaid, and William Sonoma) and for similar prices and, to my knowledge, not one of them has ever been tied to an illegal health claim. The benefits of the products can be objectively observed.”

Does this read like someone who is against MLM or ignorant of MLMs?

John said,

“If you seriously think that Warren Buffet, Robert Kioyosaki and Donald Trump are wrong, YOU’RE FIRED!”

And yet you still can’t tell me which MLMs they are distributors for. The difference is like comparing being Sam Walton and owning Wal-Mart (what Buffett has done by buying Pampered Chef) to being a Wal-Mart greeter at the door. Many MLM companies choose that mechanism because it knows it can build a big sales force and pay them less than minimum wage. In addition, by giving the sales force the impression that they will succeed, even though tax returns have shown 99% of distributors lose money, they get people like John Bowers who will fight tooth-and-nail for the company. It isn’t even about cheap labor for MLMs. They take extra advantage of the situation by making the sales force actually buy the product in order to earn their paycheck. It gets worse. They make the sales force by their own training tools. LifeVantage even points to sales of these training tools as their main point of revenue growth in their SEC filings.

Back to Buffett, Kiyosaki, and Trump. They aren’t MLM distributors because they are smart. They don’t want to be part of the cheap labor force who is taken advantage of. They want to OWN the cheap labor force. Well Kiyosaki is simply pandering to the cheap labor force because he wants them to buy more of his books – he doesn’t have the money to own it.

John said,

“Now, misleading statements by John Bowers? I have offered my rebuttal to all pertinent facts.”

That Harvard one sure went well didn’t it? You cut and pasted a document that someone else plagiarized from somewhere else and distorted it to look like Harvard was involved.

The one about Buffett with his name spelled wrong that I tore apart also went well, right?

John said,

“Why you continue to argue against the American Heart Association, Louisiana State University, Virginia Commonwealth University, Harvard Medical School, Texas Tech, and many others… Why? BECAUSE YOU GET PAID TO SPARK DEBATE! It doesn’t matter what is said, the more people that tune in to your flatulence, the more money you make! “

Let’s get the profit motivation out this. I don’t make a red cent in sparking any debate here. J. Money may get some money, I don’t know how he chooses to monetize his website. On my website, Lazy Man and Money, I have 1300 posts, and only a few them have sparked debates. I didn’t set out to write about LifeVantage Protandim, I was spammed by a LifeVantage distributor, so I actually looked into the product and wrote about it. If a company wants to stop such debates, they simply have to stop their sales force from doing illegal things (in this case spamming me). Now, I just want to make sure that people get the information on the topic.

John Bowers is the one who is actually making money from Protandim. I don’t ask for a single cent from the readers. He wants you to sign up and buy his product.

As for the American Heart Association, Louisiana State University, Virginia Commonwealth University, Harvard Medical School, Texas Tech, and many others… they are all a smoke screen. I’ve proven the AHA was false. The Harvard Medical School is probably next on my list for ProtandimScams.com. That’s an egregious misrepresentation of the information. Plus none of these institutions have one piece of information that they endorsed the research. It is one individual from each that was “encouraged” by LifeVantage as I’ve shown the Paul Myhill the inventor of Protandim readily admit.

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121 John May 31, 2011 at 10:53 pm

Lazy Monkey Man said, “As for the American Heart Association, Louisiana State University, Virginia Commonwealth University, Harvard Medical School, Texas Tech, and many others… they are all a smoke screen.”

Crazy Man and Bologna, You are smoking way too much crack; that is the only smoke screen you are seeing.

As so eloquently stated by the American Heart Association: “…Everyone should review the literature pertaining to a particular product and make determinations solely through evidence based research results and not based on who provided the funding.”

Take another hit Crazy Man and Bologna and then read that again:
“…Everyone should review the literature pertaining to a particular product and make determinations solely through evidence based research results and not based on who provided the funding.”

Good boy. Now, go lay down.

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122 John May 31, 2011 at 11:40 pm

“In another approach, Protandim, a combination of 5 well-studied medicinal plants, was given via dietary administration and significantly decreased tumor incidence and multiplicity by 33% and 57%, respectively. These studies suggest that alterations in antioxidant response may be a novel approach to chemoprevention.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3092576/pdf/ER2011-409295.pdf

That is a direct quote from the latest study on Protandim. Protandim was only mentioned 18 times, dadgummit. Or was this study really on Protandim? Maybe this study by Louisiana State University wasn’t really conducted by LSU and aliens, yes Aliens are at the very center of our medical universities! Oh My God! What are we to do?!

The Department of Pharmacology, Toxicology & Neuroscience, Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center is actually a fabricated lab, a misnomer, a complete lie that has no bricks and mortar…it is created by LifeVantage and implanted in the minds of wily, wicked, wacky independent distributors of Protandim! Yes! Eureka! Warren Bufffetttt is an alien!

Maybe this paper DOES NOT focus on how regulation of antioxidant expression and activity can be modulated in skin disease and DOES NOT HAVE the potential clinical implications of antioxidant-based therapies?

Maybe Crazy Ape and Honey is the alter-ego of Bugs Bunny, out saving the world, one scam at a time, giving it the good fight, the old ‘college try’, refuting the heinous crimes of the world; maybe Crazy Man and Homie is actually the FDA in disguise…

Maybe, just maybe… Protandim is at the stage when the population of the world thought the world was flat and the more universities and more medical personnel that hear about it (scientists and doctors, not bloggers), will agree that the science is real.

Maybe we will not fly off the edge of the earth on our voyage when we take Protandim;
Maybe a biochemical wake-up call will happen in my cells and return the oxidative stress levels to that of an 20-year old…

Maybe if Crazy Lazy and Monkey keeps smoking dope, this will all continue to prove itself out to be perfectly real…

Especially when this latest study said, “Protandim, a dietary supplement consisting of 5 well established medicinal plant extracts, has received increasing attention for its therapeutic effects in various disease pathologies…” Ummm, that wasn’t said by a distributor…

How about: “Thus, it was postulated that the induction of MnSOD via Protandim
could break this positive feedback cycle leading to cancer prevention.”
HOLY ##*T!!! Did an independent distributor say this? Are they going to repeat this??

Oh no, what is a Lazy Man and Money to do? Let’s attack the messenger, me. Let’s then attack the study. Now, lets attack the sub, sub, sub studies and the aunts and uncles that worked for Warrrreeenn Buffffeeetttt to see how they are a part of the scam.

Back on Planet Earth, “Protandim not only suppresses tumor formation, but also
mechanistically modulates pro-inflammatory signaling and the immune response via gene transcription.”

Henceforth, READ THE PEER-REVIEWED STUDIES AND GIVE THEM TO YOUR CARDIOLOGIST, ONCOLOGIST and FAMILY PHYSICIAN.

Budeeya, Budeeya, Budeeya… That’s all folks!

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123 Lazy Man and Money June 1, 2011 at 12:16 am

John,

I have a few things to attend to until tomorrow so in the meantime, I just scanned quickly and noticed a few things:

You still haven’t addressed my comments about the AHA funding.
You haven’t addressed the fact that you referenced someone who plagiarized and falsified content about Harvard Business School teaching MLM.
You haven’t told us which MLMs the following people are distributors for: Warren Buffett, Robert Kiyosaki, and Donald Trump. You were the ones who brought up these names with MLMs, so please give us the details.

Before you introduce new debate, you should close out the previously open debates that you’ve been put to task for multiple times.

To hold over everyone else while you respond to the above things that you’ve put off now for multiple responses, here is a fun article to ruminate on Nancy Leavitt, LifeVantage Pro 10 Distributor, Makes Illegal Claims That Protandim Made Her Skin Cancer Vanish.

Ouch!

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124 John June 1, 2011 at 4:41 am

Hood Rat and Monkey, I will now respond to your response about being “put to task”:
“You still haven’t addressed my comments about the AHA funding.”
http://doc-0c-ak-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/h0ls2ig4tbud0e3t4vu9ce9smil2vn2c/ag1c9qhk1ntjpbbo4g99aa0tac174nl7/1306917000000/04936878294156203443/00187433157186713219/0B64vPdJJNOenMmQ5NmFkNzYtY2ZjNS00YTM4LWE0YTMtMzkyMjM1ZjVlNTYw?e=open&nonce=lqojo9lbk38a4&user=00187433157186713219&hash=65b2m6jeic21rhpqte4099lat1k93r3f
Page 1959 SOURCES OF FUNDING: This work was supported by funds from the Victoria Johnson Center for Obstructive Lung Disease Research. Dr Bogaard received a
Dekker stipend from the Netherlands Heart Foundation, grant 2006T022. Microscopy was performed at the Virginia Commonwealth University, Department of Neurobiology and Anatomy Microscopy Facility, supported in part by funding from National
Institutes of Health–National Institute of Neurological Disorders and
Stroke Center core grant (5P30NS047463).
The American Heart Association, Circulation Journal, published online Nov 2, 2009;

Out of the 4 published peer reviewed studies, this one references funding from National Institutes of Health that I referenced earlier. Debate #1 closed. You lost, Lazy Monkey

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125 John June 1, 2011 at 4:49 am

Lazy Monkey, here is the other proof of the funding by the AHA. To you, that means: the American Heart Association.
Look on Page 17.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B64vPdJJNOenYzNhNGYyZjktNDlhMy00ZDhhLTlmNTctZjA0MGNmYzAzN2Zm&hl=en&authkey=CNHOm_8B
QUOTE: “Sources of Funding: This work was supported by AHA 0555538U and 0655323B to K.J.G and HL63744, HL65608 and HL38324 to J.L.Z.

It matters not why Protandim was studied, included, mentioned or otherwise referenced. The fact is that you are a bafoon that is beating his chest and wasting people’s valuable time.

Debate #2 closed. You lost, Lazy Spam

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126 John June 1, 2011 at 4:59 am

Lazy Rat and Funky, this is the third statement you made that is again, stupid:
“You haven’t addressed the fact that you referenced someone who plagiarized and falsified content about Harvard Business School teaching MLM.”

I did reference another website, just as you reference that infinite base of inaccurate knowledge: Wikipedia. You are putting me to task for getting information online and using it in a debate against you and then you assassinate my character?

You are a coward. You attack a woman who was not a distributor until she had a life-changing experience after taking Protandim. That brave woman needs a medal, not a slap across the face. You should be ashamed; actually, you aren’t ashamed because at whatever cost, you will defame, provoke, lie, and then cower to avoid the spotlight. You are a cock roach and I am a shoe… Keep reading.

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127 John June 1, 2011 at 5:11 am

Funky Man and Stupid, here is the final volly that you will receive from me. You are not doing an honorable service to any one person. You are distracting everyone from their valuable time.

You said, “You haven’t told us which MLMs the following people are distributors for: Warren Buffett, Robert Kiyosaki, and Donald Trump. You were the ones who brought up these names with MLMs, so please give us the details.”

There is no “us”. You are flattering yourself. There is only you.

To prove my point that Network Marketing is an excellent business distribution model, I said that if the billionaires (and a millionaire) listed above are involved in them, I’m going to follow them. THEY OWN MLM/NETWORK MARKETING COMPANIES! (That is my way of screaming in your face). They aren’t distributors! Ah, but you already knew that… so, your point was to distract, distract, distract and get paid. You are a liar about not one red cent, because we don’t get paid in cents; you get paid dollars.

Another deliberate lie to stop people from seeing the truth: PROTANDIM IS EXCELLENT FOR YOUR HEALTH. LIFEVANTAGE IS A COMPANY THAT PAYS THEIR DISTRIBUTORS.

Lazy Donkey and Funky, that was debate #4. You lost. Game Over. Now, go get a rag and get your carcass off my shoe…you’re beginning to stink.

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128 John June 1, 2011 at 5:30 am

To all of you who have read more than 4 sentences of this toilet bowl bantering, consider this:

Lazy Man and Money, AKA, the anonymous protector of the universe and bankrupt felony financial planner has made a crucial errors that he has accused LifeVantage Distributors of making: He posted material on his website and then a video of a woman that is in remission from cancer without doing ANY research—And, after readily admitting that she made the mistake of her posting her personal testimonial on youtube and asking to have it retracted months and months ago, Lazy Fat and Funky reposted it on his own website to regurgitate his diarrhea and create sensational marketing for his own gain!

Congratulations, Feces Head and Funky, you are now a LOW 10 garbage distributor on your own website. You are the lowest life in existence. This was fun for a minute, but now you are just disgusting.

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129 JOE June 1, 2011 at 1:53 pm

John, You call yourself a businessman? You talk like a 12 year old girl arguing in the playground with her immature friends over some boy. Really! How old are you? You call this a debate? You are the one that should be ashamed of yourself. Once again you have proved to me why you are where you in life.

On 5-13-2011, LFVN.OB (Life Vantage Corp) hit $1.91 per share.
Today, 6-1-2011 It is currently at $1.51

After all this R&D coming out. No investors appear to be interested. I will continue to update the stock price as this “debate” goes on.

I wonder how much money our guru businessman John invested in this “snake oil”?

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130 Dave June 1, 2011 at 2:52 pm

Joe this guy JOHN is a JOKE. He is LOST. My friend who is a distributor like John tried to get me to buy that stock too. I wonder if all the distributors were told that by their peers to “BUY NOW, We are all going to be rich.” LOL. Now they’re all STUCK AGAIN spending money on the company with no return on their investment. I watched that stock shoot up in a week for no financial reason. Then sink like a rock. I think that’s called PUMP-N-DUMP. Someone made a ship load of money off of people like John and my friend. I wonder who, Hmm?

Like I said earlier this company’s leadership is good at marketing and making people believe them.

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131 Lazy Man and Money June 1, 2011 at 4:55 pm

John,

It is hard to follow your rants when you make claims like “Warren Bufffetttt is an alien!” One can’t tell what you believe and what is sarcasm any more since almost nothing is backed by logic. It’s hard to know what you are talking about when you say things like Crazy Man and Bologna, Crazy Ape and Honey, Crazy Man and Homie, Hood Rat and Monkey, etc. I presume they mean me, but since you move on things like Hood Rat and Monkey that have no association with my name, that is a stretch.

Someone reading any of your last posts may wonder if Protandim causes insanity.

I’ve addressed the skin cancer thing before. There’s nothing breakthrough about it. Studies on Vitamin E show similar results. In fact, you can find it for a pile of antioxidants. So what the skin cancer in rat thing showed was that Protandim was an antioxidant. That’s nothing revolutionary. I have a dozen of them in my spice rack and a few in my medicine cabinet. All were much, much less expensive than Protandim.

You keep circling back with the AHA stuff without reading what I’ve posted. I read what you have and I addressed it. You need to address what I’ve said, not repeat what you said originally. It just moves any logical discussion back to square one.

Your Wikipedia rant is especially funny. If you did a little research you’d know that academics consider it to be an accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica. If you don’t believe it to be accurate, try pointing out any inaccuracies. I pointed out the inaccuracies in the Bill Palte link, even showing that he plagerized it from another site and adding the bits about Harvard Business School in to make it sound legitimate. Yes, I attack your character for believing that Bill Palte’s plagerized material is anywhere near the same league as Wikipedia. I suppose news organizations will be comparing Bill Palte’s MLM propeganda to Wikipedia’s neutral stance any day now.

As for me attacking Nancy Leavitt, she claims to have been in it for 20 years (and from the couple’s website seem to back it up with experience). She should know the rules of LifeVantage as well as the FTC’s and FDA’s laws. She doesn’t deserve a slap in the face, she deserves action from law enforcement. Problem is that she’ll probably get away with it because law enforcement is too understaffed to deal with these crimes.

Thank you for agreeing with me on the Warren Buffett, Robert Kiyosaki, and Donald Trump points. I had said that they own MLM companies (though I’m not sure Kiyosaki does, I think he just sells his books to them). You repeated that back to me in all capital letters. You also agree with me that they aren’t distributors. I haven’t heard Trump or Buffett once endorse that someone becomes a MLM distributor. So when you say you want to follow these people, I have to ask why you aren’t a doorman in the Trump hotel? Warren Buffet owns 21% of the Washington Post. So are you going to become a Washington Post paperboy?

I know that logic isn’t your strong suit, but someone please help me understand. I could understand if they were distributors. Then I’d say, “Wow, those smart people are distributors, it might logical to be follow them.” However, they aren’t distributors. If it were a great business opportunity they would be distributors, but they aren’t. So if you want to be like Buffett or Trump, you shouldn’t be a distributor either. Perhaps you should invest in the stock market (like Buffett) or real estate (like Trump). I apologize in advance to J. Money for actually touching on a personal finance topic ;-).

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132 JOE June 1, 2011 at 6:43 pm

Lazy Man, you are great. I heard many of these MLM’s start in Utah, because of the Mormons. Do you find this true? Why?
Thanks in advance. Joe

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133 J. Money June 1, 2011 at 9:27 pm

There’s a new book out on Warren Buffett actually, by The Motley Fool people – looks interesting ;)

Warren Buffett Invests Like a Girl: And Why You Should, Too

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134 Nathan June 1, 2011 at 9:51 pm

MLM is not bad. Its just that a lot of people are bad at it. There’s a reason why people become rich doing network marketing. If this was easy everyone would be rich! All the people throwing negative comments on Lifevantage and protandim have probably tried network marketing and failed therefore they feel obligated to call it a SCAM because us humans don’t accept failure and find little excuses to blame the said failure. It’s fine we all do it. But while all you negatives are going off on lifevantage I’m building a network regardless of any opinions on this blog. I’m only 21 years old and make more money than some of my friends with a full time job and degree. I’m not suggesting to anyone to quit school (i currently attend college and pursue a degree in engineering) but I want people to know that network marketing can work for you if you are good at it. Some people will never find out because of blogs like this one that discourage people to take the risk. I took the risk and I’m glad I did.

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135 J. Money June 1, 2011 at 9:57 pm

I actually don’t have a problem with MLM in itself, I just know it’s not for me. I think the bigger issue is the product people sell. Some are great, some are so-so, and some just suck. Just like any other job or career out there ;) If you can make a lot of money and are happy selling whatever it is you choose to sell, great! More power to ya.

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136 Lazy Man and Money June 1, 2011 at 10:46 pm

Nathan said,

MLM is not bad. Its just that a lot of people are bad at it.

It may be true that people are bad at MLM, but it is worth noting that when it comes to many MLMs, failure Is Not a Matter of Effort, it’s a Mathematical Certainty. That article was geared towards MonaVie, but it applies to any MLM company, including LifeVantage. When you need to recruit more people than yourself to make your money back, it is an unsustainable business model. That’s why pyramid schemes collapse, they run out of people to recruit. So with any MLM, a key question to ask is, “Am I able to get my build a business without recruiting?”

Continuing with the next comment because of the 1-link limit with J. Money’s spam filter…

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137 Lazy Man and Money June 1, 2011 at 10:48 pm

If you, as an MLM distributor, make your money from recruiting the FTC warns that MLMs may be a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are “bad” as they illegal and a form of fraud.

Continuing with the next comment because of the 1-link limit with J. Money’s spam filter…

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138 Nathan June 1, 2011 at 11:00 pm

Mathematical certainty is correct. Wouldn’t you say the chances of failure are higher when a company has reached critical mass? Now effort is still a factor. People are used to a stable pay rate. Example: person makes $9 dollars/hour until next yearly raise of $.50 as oppose to a distributor that has an exponential increase in pay . But when a check is based on the effort u put into getting ur distributor and sale people get scared. I’ve met so many people that failed doing mlm because of 1) product was already to popular and market had been drained 2) first pay check was too low. My point is protandim is a new company with a good product. Theirs a reason why my customers haven’t cancelled they’re autoshipment. My customers know the cancellations process is just one phone call away

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139 Lazy Man and Money June 1, 2011 at 11:15 pm

Nathan said,

I’m only 21 years old and make more money than some of my friends with a full time job and degree. I’m not suggesting to anyone to quit school (i currently attend college and pursue a degree in engineering) but I want people to know that network marketing can work for you if you are good at it. Some people will never find out because of blogs like this one that discourage people to take the risk. I took the risk and I’m glad I did.

Again… mathematically, your earnings show that you have lead many, many people to lose money. This is the kind of thing that I’m (and the 1300 posts) on my website are against.

I’m sure you took the risk. People at the top (as well as near the top) of pyramid schemes are also happy that they took the risk. It doesn’t mean that it is legal. It doesn’t mean that product is valuable to consumers.

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140 Nathan June 1, 2011 at 11:24 pm

Aren’t all businesses like that too? Person invests to open a restaurant, only a certain percentage become successful doing so. Mlm just has more businesses opening therefore has more cases of failure.

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141 Lazy Man and Money June 1, 2011 at 11:56 pm

Nathan said,

Mathematical certainty is correct.

Thanks Nathan for agreeing with the fact failing in MLMs is a mathematical certainty for all involved.

Nathan said,

Wouldn’t you say the chances of failure are higher when a company has reached critical mass?

Please define “chances of failure” and “critical mass”. I can show that “chances of failure” are more than 99%. I can also show that “critical mass” is irrelvant for MLM distributors because many people involved in MLMs just move their uplines to the “new hot thing”. I explained in this article that MLM distributors don’t care about the product, just move to the new hot opportunity.

Nathan said,

People are used to a stable pay rate. Example: person makes $9 dollars/hour until next yearly raise of $.50 as oppose to a distributor that has an exponential increase in pay.

Umm, I think people who read Budgets Are Sexy or Lazy Man and Money are open to a variable pay rate… I promote that. I think J. Money does as well, but I don’t want to put words in his mouth.

Regarding on what people make I’d focus on what on of the top MLMs, MonaVie distributers makes. I would give a LifeVantage-focused view, but in nearly 3 years of being an MLM, they have proven to be too inept to distribute an income disclosure statement. Since that is not available, I focus on the MonaVie distributor statement showing that 99.63% don’t make their money back. That means that over 99.63% of people don’t make money…

… that means that MonaVie distributors have less than 1 in 200 chance of making money.

… and many, many of them, aren’t actually profitable considering their expenses promoting the business.

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142 Lazy Man and Money June 2, 2011 at 12:48 am

Nathan said,

“Aren’t all businesses like that too? Person invests to open a restaurant, only a certain percentage become successful doing so. Mlm just has more businesses opening therefore has more cases of failure.”

I I suppose there is some logic to this… However, I have not seen a restaurant owner base their decision on starting their business on their ability to convince other people to open a competing business. If I am going to be Subway franchisee, I’m not going to try to convince everyone who walks in the door that they should open up a competing Subway.

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143 Linda June 4, 2011 at 12:49 pm

Hi guys. I asked this on another blog: “Are any of you on this site medical professionals or do you have a degree in the sciences that you are debating?”

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144 Lazy Man and Money June 4, 2011 at 1:28 pm

Linda,

Shouldn’t you ask how Paul Myhill, who is not a medical professional and without a degree in any medical field, can invent a product, Protandim, that is worth debating the science of? Surely if Paul Myhill knows more than medical professionals who study this full-time, it isn’t necessary for anyone here to have a science background to debate it.

That said, you can find Dr. Harriet Hall’s take on the sciences here: Protandim: Another Kind of Antioxidant. I believe she is the only doctor not affiliated with a LifeVantage’s Joe McCord, who has given her opinion on Protandim.

In addition, we have LifeVantage’s own accord of the science. Paul Myhill essentially admit that the company “encourages” such science for marketing purposes. This tells you that the scientific community is not interested in Protandim. Not only that, but LifeVantage on the company FAQ itself claims, “Protandim is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.”

The combination of all three should address all you need to know about the debate of the science.

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145 Linda June 4, 2011 at 5:37 pm

1) No I will not be asking Mr. Myhill for his opinion. Mr. Myhill’s medical professional friends are not the case. If he is your only source that invalidates the science, you too are using old news to debate this with…

2) Thanks for defining the debate and limiting it to only the points you’ve made.

3) You said it isn’t necessary for anyone here to have a science background to debate it. Thank you for making my point clear: You don’t have a science background and don’t have the necessary education to substantiate the medical discoveries made by the universities.

4) Dr. Harriet Hall is no Joseph McCord. There simply is no comparison. Her achievements are minute compared to Dr. McCord, whom I have discovered is monumentally more important and more significant than Dr. Hall.

5) You’ve said that the scientific community is not interested in Protandim. Those are your words. After calling every university listed on LifeVantage’s website, your statement is not only wrong, but I may be so bold as to call it a lie. There are 12 universities who are conducting their own research right now. (I don’t have time to call them all) Why would 12 scientific departments study Protandim if they weren’t interested?

6) You said, “LifeVantage admits Protandim is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.” I think that Dr. McCord said it perfectly, “…when enough studies are done, perhaps these claims can be made…” Therefore, I find it admirable that universities are still studying it and will make their evidence known in their own due time

Frankly, if it has only taken 6 years to produce 8 independent peer-reviewed studies, what is the future to bring? Aspirin is still being studied and it was once thought to be insignificant as well.

Thank you for your time.

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146 Nathan June 4, 2011 at 5:55 pm

So my grandpa was diagnosed with prostate cancer six months ago. He has been taking protandim since he was diagnosed. My grandpa had a check up today and was told the cancer had decreased a lot. Protandim? Maybe. I’ll tell u one thing, the doctor called me a few minutes ago asking me what his diet was because of the amazing results. I told him protandim. New distributor? Maybe. We have an appointment next week to talk about the business side of protandim.

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147 Lazy Man and Money June 4, 2011 at 6:28 pm

Linda,

Thanks for spamming my other site. You come along posting under new identities all the time. It is hard to take your points seriously.

1) It is a signficant that the inventor of the product has no medical experience. Do you want me to mix up things my spice rack and call it medicine?

2) Thanks for asking open, pointed questions allow me to define the debate rather than simply making your points.

3) Linda said, “You said it isn’t necessary for anyone here to have a science background to debate it. ” I didn’t say any such thing. Please scroll up and see the whole sentence. It was predicated on a false statement on purpose.

4) You are right, there is no comparison to Dr. Harriett Hall and Dr. Joe McCord. Dr. Harriett Hall is completely unbiased and does profit from the sale of LifeVantage Protandim. Joe McCord is a LifeVantage insider and his profit motive should draw criticism and skepticism.

5) I stand by my claim. Please show the proof that those universities are interested. I don’t believe your statement that you called them until you give us names and numbers of who you talked to. We also don’t know if those universities have been encouraged by LifeVantage as they admitted to doing in the past. Being encouraged to study and being interested in studying are not necessarily the same things.

6) When Dr. McCord isn’t saying here is that these are not the studies that are necessary to make those claims. There are thousands of studies on various vitamins and it isn’t enough for claims to be made. What do you mean by only taken 6 years to product 8 studies? That’s a really long time, especially considering that the company only started encouraging these studies as marketing when it decided to go MLM in 2008.

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148 Lazy Man and Money June 4, 2011 at 6:33 pm

Nathan,

The FTC, FDA, and LifeVantage would probably appreciate it if you stopped breaking the law.

Thanks

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149 Nathan June 4, 2011 at 6:50 pm

I’m not trying to question your observation skills but did u notice the “maybe” part….

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150 JOE June 4, 2011 at 6:54 pm

Nathen, Your “grandpa’s doctor” called you? Really? Not his wife? ( ok, she may be deceased) but none of his children? Just you. On a Saturday? Wow, I believe that one. He wants to meet with you next week? Wow again. You must be related to John… or be one of his victims.

ON FRIDAY 6-3-11, LFVN.OB (Life Vantage Corp) CLOSED AT $1.45
DOWN FOR THE WEEK

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151 Nathan June 4, 2011 at 7:02 pm

First of all its NATHAN not nathen. It almost seems like everyone going against lifevantage can’t read. Anyways Joe, yes wow. That’s exactly what I said. I hope u never get cancer because if you do u will probably have to take a protandim as a supositorie with all ur negativity (ouch!). Oh and are u related to jmoney?

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152 Linda June 4, 2011 at 10:33 pm

Nathan,

These gentlemen are not even in the same league as your grandfather’s doctor. They even doubt that he/she called you. You see the problem with their logic and conclusions? I was accused of ‘spamming’, meaning asking questions about these fellow’s medical prowess and what I received was insulting, degrading commentary. To emphasize my point: Nobody on this blog is a qualified medical professional. They are arguing that air does not exist because they cannot see it, yet, it is proven by science to exist…

Let me take the higher road, Nathan. Congratulations that you are exploring other methods to help your grandfather. That is admirable. Did his doctor provide a copy of the PET/CT scan before and after your grandfather began taking Protandim? If there were X-ray or MRI images, those will be significant for more research to be conducted. I fully understand that you would care less at this point if Protandim was responsible, but please help others by encouraging them to contact you or your grandfather’s physician for the information. Your grandfather may be the beginning of human trials on that product.

Don’t post the translation your PET scan report. To interpret those is time-intensive and is really a job for the physician(s) directly involved.

Whether you are a peddler of Protandim, a doctor, or lawyer, you are first a human being that is concerned for your family. I respect that and as far as I’m concerned, the FTC, FDA and LifeVantage compliance department be damned. If your grandfather is getting positive results, get an oncologist involved that understands the science. I wouldn’t waste another moment speaking to whomever on this site. Don’t allow them to provoke you.

Take your results to a university near you and ask to speak to the Director of Science for that institution. Good luck.

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153 Hot Rod June 4, 2011 at 10:50 pm

Linda, you are a princess. Thanks for being nice.
Nathan, congratulations. I hope your family recovers.
Joe, LFVN traded at .38/share just six months ago. With the day traders out of the way this stock is not a bad investment. Did you get in on the stock months ago?
And Joe, you shouldn’t insult a person’s family…you’ve lost your point.
Lazy Man and Money, Linda asked you a question that you dodged: Do you have a medical background?
J Money, You’re awesome. This is a lively debate that at times is very comical. Too bad we couldn’t get together for beers. You guys get eaten up at times, but it’s fun to watch.
And to anyone who will respond, are you all saying this company is a pyramid scheme? Or all MLM companies are pyramid schemes?

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154 Nathan June 4, 2011 at 10:55 pm

Thumbs up to Hot Rod!

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155 Nathan June 4, 2011 at 11:03 pm

Thanks Linda! I know I don’t have to prove anything. Just thought I should share this information with everyone. And I actually do have paperwork proving my statements along with the contact information of the doctor my gramps is seeing. I’m not going to post anything of course because of the privacy issue but nevertheless I know that protandim played a role in my grandfathers recovery.

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156 Lazy Man and Money June 4, 2011 at 11:44 pm

Hot Rod,

It’s interesting that you just posted on my site, but appear to be the same person as Linda. I guess it’s easy to just make up different names and congratulate yourself on your own posts.

Nathan,

Legally, you can’t even imply that Protandim “may” have had any effect for any medical conditions. The maybe may get you by LifeVantage’s exact terminology, but it won’t get anywhere with the FTC or FDA. You simply can’t draw any connection between the two events without FDA approval.

Other illegal things that Nathan can’t say, “I know that protandim played a role in my grandfathers recovery.”

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157 Nathan June 5, 2011 at 12:21 am

Nope legally I can’t guarantee that protandim will have any effect. Any personal experience or testimonial can be shared all while stating that effects differ according to the person. My mom is a lawyer so don’t throw any legal mumbo jumbo my way.

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158 Hot Rod June 5, 2011 at 3:33 am

Lazy Man and Money, Linda asked you a question that you dodged: Do you have a medical background? I don’t know what paranoid medication you are on, but you need some.

Answer the question and stop distracting from the truth

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159 Nathan June 5, 2011 at 5:36 am

Theyre acting like lawyers, doctors, marketing expercts…. wow someone likes going to school and triple majoring. Anyways, today was a great day. I received great news regarding my grandpa doctor, started a group of distributors in a new city (which I will not state due to lifevantage competition), and had some drinks with my grandpas doctor ( my mom went to school with him, funny coincidence huh?). I know haters are gnna say “yea right” and also “sure you did” but trust me when I say my next paycheck is going to be BIG. PRO 10 HERE I COME!!!

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160 Nathan June 5, 2011 at 5:54 am

P. to the muthaf***ing S. Due to privacy I’m not going to post any proof of what I just stated (i have paperwork regarding my grandpas condition, and a Facebook with plenty of pictures of tonight of my grandpas doctor and I at my little sisters graduation party). But I can guarantee you this, this company is going to take off pretty quickly and anyone who is smart will jump on this opportunity asap.

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161 Lazy Man and Money June 5, 2011 at 12:31 pm

Yes, I do have a medical background. It isn’t much of one, but it is more than most can claim. I was a pharmacy technician for 5 years where my duties included mixing IVs for a 100-bed hospital. Getting the last air bubble out of an epidural was always a fun and challenging aspect of the job. My mother’s been an RN for 40 years. My brother was a pharmacy technician for 5 years. His wife, my sister-in-law, is a practicing M.D. My wife is a pharmacist with the U.S. Military (“Big Pharma” has never paid her a penny before people think that’s motivation) and almost every year, I go to the annual APhA convention and mix with 40 other pharmacists (some of them employed by the FDA). At first when I bring up topics like MonaVie and Protandim, they chuckle about the easily people are duped by this, not believing it to be true. Then reality sets in and it is a somber time because no one wants to see fellow American’s scammed.

I don’t like to share this medical background, because people will ask me to prove it with names and details. Sorry, I won’t. I give my personal income details and net worth on my site and I don’t see anyone else here posting there names and intimate details of their finances. What I can prove though is that my wife is indeed a pharmacist. I have numerous posts on the topic on my website (including mentions of APhA trips) that predate me writing about MonaVie or Protandim.

Additionally, remember that my medical background is not the issue here. None of the arguments that I make rely on any medical background on my part. This question is a distraction that is unrelated to the topic. If it turned out I was the Surgeon General, it wouldn’t make my arguments any more sound. If it turns out that I’m a janitor who never been near any medical facility it doesn’t make the arguments any less sound. It is simply a red herring.

Lastly, since Protandim hasn’t been shown to the FDA’s standards to do anything medical for a person, a medical background is unnecessary when discussing the topic. Protandim also hasn’t been shown to me get me more mileage per gallon in my car – do I need to be mechanic to prove that as well?

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162 Lazy Man and Money June 5, 2011 at 12:42 pm

Nathan said,

“Nope legally I can’t guarantee that protandim will have any effect. Any personal experience or testimonial can be shared all while stating that effects differ according to the person. My mom is a lawyer so don’t throw any legal mumbo jumbo my way.”

Actually Nathan you can’t share any personal experience or testimonial. I think you should read the three bullet points that the FTC makes about endorsements: http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus71-ftcs-revised-endorsement-guideswhat-people-are-asking. When you signed a distributor contract with LifeVantage such testimonials become endorsements.

The bullet points are:

- “Endorsements must be truthful and not misleading;”
- “If the advertiser doesn’t have proof that the endorser’s experience represents what consumers will achieve by using the product, the ad must clearly and conspicuously disclose the generally expected results in the depicted circumstances;”
- “If there’s a connection between the endorser and the marketer of the product that would affect how people evaluate the endorsement, it should be disclosed.”

The first bullet point can not be evalutated since you have not provided any evidence as to whether it is truthful or not. In addition you misleadingly make a connection between cancer and Protandim where LifeVantage itself says one does not exist.
The second bullet point is an important one. The Advertiser (LifeVantage) does not have proof the endorser’s experience (treating cancer) represents what consumers will achieve by using the product. You did not disclose the general expected results in the depicted circumstances. What are those generally expected results? That cancer will not be treatable with Protandim.
The third bullet point you comply with. At least people reading this know that you are trying to scam them for your own profit.

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163 Lazy Man and Money June 5, 2011 at 12:50 pm

Nathan,

I previously mentioned the FDA can come down on you as well. I suppose I should back that up like I did with the FTC above. I submit an example of them doing just that on another MLM distributor, Kevin Vokes, who violated their guidelines as you have:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/EnforcementActivitiesbyFDA/CyberLetters/ucm056937.pdf

I hope you get a better lawyer than your mommy.

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164 J. Money June 5, 2011 at 4:58 pm

Haha, I’m a big fan of beers Hot Rod – perhaps one day indeed! And before anyone asks me – no, I do not have a medical background ;) I am a blogger. And actually, I have no knowledge of Protandim or any of these kinds of things which is why I invited Lazy Man to share his opinion on here. I wanted to learn more and see what people thought, and I sure am now! :)

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165 Nathan June 5, 2011 at 11:31 pm

Lol I’m shaking in my boots lazy woman

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166 Hot Rod June 6, 2011 at 2:41 am

Hey, J Money! Great, let’s go get a beer.

Thanks for your honesty, J Money and Lazy Man regarding your medical background; and Lazy Man for exposing your personal relationships. That is admirable.

Good analogies on Protandim. They’re a kick.

LifeVantage and their distributors claim to have eight peer reviewed clinical studies that reference their product. Give me your opinion on peer reviews. They all seem valid and from credible sources. Lazy Man, I know you debunk a couple of them, but, they keep coming out. Give me your take on the peer reviews.

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167 JOE June 6, 2011 at 2:28 pm

Hot Rod,
I don’t recall putting anyone’s family down. Not my style. The words are above, read it again. I think NathAN and John are full of crap. That’s my opinion. I really hope his grandfather lives well beyond 100. The only people that like Protandim seem to distributors.

And no I did not invest in it ever. I believe it will continue to go down to back where it was 6 months ago. It’s a Pump n Dump. Which already happened. Now it will die.

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168 Hot Rod June 6, 2011 at 5:23 pm

I keep jumping all over the net to see what others are saying about this.
Very interesting. Very, very interesting. I think I’ll go take a leak… Lol.

If you look on nasdaq.com and do a comparative analysis regarding the LFVN stock, they say it strikes excellent reviews. At least that’s what the computers are predicting. I haven’t bought yet. I’m waiting for some insider info! LOL, that’s what blogging is all about, right? If someone finds something out about a stock, let me know! Just kidding, of course.

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169 Hot Rod June 6, 2011 at 5:26 pm

Joe,
What is your opinion on peer-reviews?

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170 JOE June 6, 2011 at 5:54 pm

Hot Rod,
They should be used to provide credibility. But you and I know that’s not always the case due to greed and influence. So I stand to say, believe who you wish. Take it for what its worth to you.

LFVN.OB (Life Vantage Corp) CLOSED AT $1.37… Down nearly 5% today 6-6-11

I think John and (Pro 10) NathAN should borrow some money from his grandpa’s Dr. to buy some stock if they believe in this snake oil so much. C’mon NathAN it’s only money. It’s a good investment, BUY NOW, You’re gonna be RICH….LOL

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171 Nathan June 6, 2011 at 6:11 pm

Nope dont need to borrow any money. I got four distributors today while u guys are blogging amongst each other (I think? Kinda seems like lazyman and jmoney are making up people to keep the debate going lol) im out making money. Time is money and this blog is a waste of my time so this is my last post. Cheers!

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172 Hot Rod June 6, 2011 at 6:19 pm

Nathan you may be onto something. Here is the latest outcome from another peer-review:
(This is found on nasdaq.com, joe.)

The review, conducted by researchers at Louisiana State University, examined the biochemical mechanisms that underlie the ability of Protandim® ,when ingested, to suppress tumors in mice. The ability discussed in this article was previously demonstrated by the authors in a study involving a mouse two-stage model of chemically-induced skin cancer. Protandim®, a patented dietary supplement comprised of five highly synergistic herbal ingredients, has been shown in earlier studies to activate the transcription factor Nrf2, a signal to the cell’s DNA to regulate a network of protective genes. This review compares Protandim’s® believed mechanism of action with information derived from similar complementary studies, which have also been aimed at the reduction of oxidative stress which is linked to many diseases including cancer. Even though results of certain animal testing do not translate into similar results for human subjects, this data is very promising in greatly reducing oxidative stress and may provide the same results in humans.

The authors conclude that oxidative stress forms a mechanistic linkage between cell proliferation, inflammation, and apoptosis, suggesting that potent multimodal antioxidant inducers may potentially be utilized with conventional chemotherapeutics. They note that efforts are currently underway to discover and develop compounds that effectively induce manganese superoxide dismutase (MnSOD) in hopes of incorporating antioxidant-based therapies into current clinical practice. They suggest that the development of various MnSOD inducers to be used during the early-onset of tumorigenesis may represent a plausible approach to suppress underlying mechanisms involved in carcinogenesis.

“This work was conceived, funded and created by investigators at the Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center at Shreveport, completely independent of LifeVantage,” stated Douglas Robinson, LifeVantage CEO. “LifeVantage greatly appreciates the continuing academic interest in Protandim® shown by researchers such as Dr. Zhao and his colleagues. This scholarly contribution underscores the current value and future potential with which Protandim® is being viewed by the biomedical research community, particularly with regard to health conditions associated with oxidative stress.”

Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/company-news-story.aspx?storyid=201106030830PR_NEWS_USPRX____LA13604#ixzz1OXLcszFh

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173 Hot Rod June 6, 2011 at 6:26 pm

Nathan,
Give me your link so I can check out how to be involved with LifeVantage.

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174 JOE June 6, 2011 at 6:41 pm

Nathen
Four distributors today? Wow Really ? 4? I can not imagine what you kind of crap you are telling these innocent individuals. What city do you live in? I want to sell them a beachfront property in the desert. I see there are a whole bunch of smart people where you live. lol You, John, your grandpa’s Dr. and the dumb ass people you are sell this snake oil too. I’m sure you are making many false claims as Lazy Man said. Karma will follow you young man…

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175 JOE June 6, 2011 at 6:43 pm

Hot Rod,
This info above came out on Friday June 3rd. Then stock has went down 10% since this news has come out. If its so great why isn’t it going up?

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176 Bev June 6, 2011 at 6:45 pm

Hot Rod,
“LifeVantage greatly appreciates the continuing academic interest in Protandim® shown by researchers such as Dr. Zhao and his colleagues. This scholarly contribution underscores the current value and future potential with which Protandim® is being viewed by the biomedical research community, particularly with regard to health conditions associated with oxidative stress.”

I read earlier that there was no interest in Protandim… Your source is right. These other guys are not giving all the facts. There is a lot of interest in Protandim

John, above, pointed out many facts that they have ignored.

Just thought I’d throw in my 2 cents…

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177 Bev June 6, 2011 at 6:48 pm

Joe, seriously? Why did the stock market in 1929 crash? Why does a stock go up and down day to day? I’m no financial adviser, but it doesn’t take a genius to look at other stocks and see that they lose every day and the gain the next… c’mon. seriously?

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178 Hot Rod June 6, 2011 at 7:22 pm

Bev,
Your right.
“LifeVantage’s Nrf2 Activator Reviewed for Tumor Prevention and Suppression in New Peer-Reviewed Article”
This is a publicly traded company, right?
If they are spreading lies, where is the FDA right now?
Where is the FTC?
What about the SEC?
If they are criminally negligent and ripping off customers, where is the FBI?

If my family had cancer, I would want them to look into this immediately. Especially because not one of the agencies I mentioned have warned or told the LifeVantage people to stop saying what they are saying. Why? Because they are saying the truth.

Call LifeVantage. I did. They are the ones who gave me the numbers to call if I had a complaint! This press release was formed by a bunch of lawyers to make sure that nothing inaccurate would be printed.

I also called an SEC representative and they said that there is no complaint against LifeVantage. They are in good standing.

Joe, you need to get a life. If you don’t believe medical and scientific experts, that is your prerogative. If you don’t believe your mechanic when he shows you your engine is gonna blow up, that’s fine too. If you don’t believe your stock broker, that’s fine too. You just insulted Nathan, John, Nathan’s Doctor and others because they trust what is written, if you don’t believe it, that’s fine. Stop blogging! You aren’t adding to anything.

As a matter of fact, J Money, if you know Joe, leave him at home when we go have a beer.

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179 JOE June 6, 2011 at 7:43 pm

Bev,
You are comparing the Great Depression to one penny stock? I should be the one here saying “Seriously?” I’m just stating an opinion that with all this positive news coming out, the stock is still sinking.
Why does a stock go up or down? Well one reason is consumer confidence. The other one you might be interested in, is when people SELL, it goes down. That’s what has happened the past 2 weeks.

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180 JOE June 6, 2011 at 7:53 pm

Hot Rod, John, Nathen (whatever your name is…) you all sound like the same person to me.
You should look up the definition of blogging. If I’m writing here and your reading here, we’re blogging buddy. Why do you care what I believe? I’m here to give my opinion to the innocent. Just as Lazy Man is.
Oh and I do believe my stock broker. He said “Run, Are you nuts?” when I told him my “distributor” friend told me to buy this. Buy it Hot Rod, I love telling people ” I told you so.”
That’s how some people have to learn.

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181 J. Money June 6, 2011 at 9:56 pm

Just took a quick scan, and everyone seems to be commenting from their usual email and IP addresses. So unless you guys are good at making up aliases and have the time to jump on and off from a bunch of different computers, I’m gonna believe you are who you say you are :)

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182 Hot Rod June 6, 2011 at 11:21 pm

Joe, Curly, Larry, whatever your name is, be a good stooge and read my post #170.

Tell me how the intricate snake oil salesman have infected another study with there devious marketing scam. Please

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183 Hot Rod June 6, 2011 at 11:22 pm

J Money, you seem like a MGD type of fellow, correct?

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184 Hot Rod June 7, 2011 at 3:15 am

“Dr. Brian Tseng and his colleagues at Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School, and the University of Colorado Denver, demonstrated the ability of Protandim® to suppress levels of both oxidative stress and fibrosis, which can lead to heart failure and other symptoms exhibited in DMD, while increasing the activity of a protective antioxidant enzyme called paraoxonase-1 (PON1) in the mdx mouse model of DMD.” DMD is Duchenne’s Muscular Dystrophy.

The more I read… the more Joe looks like the one who needs a beer. Maybe these mice need a beer? Any studies on that yet? Thank God for the mice volunteering for these.
Joe, after a beer, do you want to be a volunteer? You already have a hardened heart, come on, live a little!

More snake oil propaganda? I’m just cutting and pasting these studies because it completely takes away your argument. WHY are all of these people studying this stuff?
Is there anything to it?

“Even though results of certain animal testing do not translate into similar results for human subjects, this data is very promising in greatly reducing oxidative stress and may provide the same results in humans.” Isn’t it a good start?

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185 Hot Rod June 7, 2011 at 3:46 am

Oh, I just followed one of Lazy Man’s links to the FTC.

Let’s all stop the debate and if you feel that something has been done or said that is wrong, file a complaint with the FTC: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

Isn’t that what they get paid to do? Investigate?

I think that Lazy Man is really stretching his knowledge of the FTC laws because all that Nathan would have to do, or John, or Catherine or anybody that makes a claim that “Water helped cure my thirst” is simply show the proof that the scientists are saying in the peer reviewed articles about water. Anyway, I’m not criticizing Lazy Man, just pointing out that if you have a question of law, give it to the lawyers to decide if this company or its people have made mistakes, yes?

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186 Lazy Man and Money June 7, 2011 at 7:02 am

So many good comments over the last few hours.

Regarding the stock price of LifeVantage, I have two thoughts.

One is that Joe is onto something that if the product was a breakthrough in any way the company’s stock value should reflect that. If the news of a few days was noteworthy it should positively impact the stock. LifeVantage is worth around 110M as of today… this is less money than the Red Sox invested in Adrian Gonzalez’s new contract. This is not a lot of money folks. There has been no stock market crash of 1929 or anything of that nature over the last few days which makes Bev’s comments even more ridiculous.

The second thought that I had regarding LifeVantage is that the stock might actually do fairly well in the short term (year or two). My reasoning for that is simply because the margin on their product is exceptionally high. It costs them about a penny to make a pill, they sell it for around $1.30. They don’t have to pay any research and development because, well, they haven’t done anything since 6 years ago when Paul Myhill went into his magical kitchen of herbs and figuratively declared that the feather in his cap was macaroni. (That was a Yankee Doodle reference if you missed it.) They don’t have big labor costs, because, in general, MLM distributors make less than minimum wage on average. That labor is required to return much of their pay to the company because they are required to by the same 1 cent pills for well over $1.00 each. This is the equivalent of Nike requiring every employee pay a few hundred dollars for a pair of shoes each month (assuming that a pair of shoes costs a few dollars for them to make). All these factors should add up to great profit margins for LifeVantage the company, which should benefit the stock. This doesn’t mean that company’s product does a thing or isn’t a scam. It doesn’t mean that people like Nathan aren’t illegally marketing the product. It just means that as long as they can keep the scam afloat perhaps the stock could do more over the long term than be a pump and dump. Who knows, maybe they’ll require distributors to buy shares of it every month in order to earn commissions?

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187 Lazy Man and Money June 7, 2011 at 7:03 am

Hod Rod asked some big questions:

This is a publicly traded company, right?
If they are spreading lies, where is the FDA right now?
Where is the FTC?
What about the SEC?
If they are criminally negligent and ripping off customers, where is the FBI?

Enron was a publicly traded company. It had a market capitalization of well over $60 billion at one time. It was one of the more valuable companies in the world… and how long did it take for the SEC to catch up to that scam? LifeVantage has a market capitalization of around $100 million and is traded over the counter as one of the world’s smallest publicly traded companies.

Surely Enron is a one time thing. A scam of $60+ billion dollars can’t possibly happen again. Well Bernie Madoff’s Ponzi scheme was $65 billion and the SEC dropped the ball on that one too. Do a Google search for “No One Would Listen” and read about the guy who complained to the SEC for a decade. Here’s a quote from the NY Daily News on the book, “What is perhaps most revealing about the investigator’s account is how many reporters and government officials Markopolos reached out to with his Madoff suspicions, all of whom ignored his complaints. Markopolos even describes an attempt to deliver his findings to then New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer.” Here’s another quote from the Today show, “Months after Madoff’s collapse, the FBI would reveal to my team that based on our 2005 submission providing evidence that Madoff was running a Ponzi scheme, the SEC finally launched an investigation — but that its crack investigative team during the two-year-long investigation ‘never even figured out there was a 17th floor.’ I had provided all the evidence they needed to close down Madoff — and they couldn’t find an entire floor. Instead they issued three technical deficiency notices of minor violations to Madoff’s broker-dealer arm.”

The FBI in two years of investigation couldn’t figure out that the while the company was operating on the 18th and the 19th floors it was also operating on the 17th floor.

Clearly the SEC has its faults with the big companies that are of great public interest. The FBI can put years of effort into something and miss a full 1/3rd of the operating space. If the big companies can get away with it, it shouldn’t surprise anyone here that much, much smaller companies can as well.

So what do we have left, the FTC and the FDA? I’ll address those in future comment since this one is getting long.

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188 Lazy Man and Money June 7, 2011 at 7:40 am

Hot Rod was asking about the FTC and why they aren’t stepping up to warn consumers about Protandim. It’s a very valid question and one that requires addressing. It was a question that I asked many months ago myself. It seems this article about the FTC fighting FreeCreditReport.com provides the answers:

You’re the federal agency charged with protecting consumers. You have a $250 million annual budget, subpoena power and the ability to refer cases to the Justice Department for prosecution. So what do you do when one of America’s biggest companies continually flouts the law?

You challenge the company to a joke-off.

At least, that’s what the Federal Trade Commission has done.

So what we have here is an admission that the FTC’s funding is so small it can’t fight one of America’s bigger companies.

“FreeCreditReport.com is owned by credit bureau Experian, which has been engaged in a decades-long battle with the Federal Trade Commission over alleged misbehavior. Most recently, in 2005, the FTC settled charges with the firm that it intentionally misled customers with its FreeCreditReport.com Web site. The FTC said in its lawsuit that the company was confusing consumers who were looking for their congressionally mandated free annual peek at their credit reports. Experian agreed to refund customers, but admitted no wrongdoing.

Even after the settlement, it kept right on marketing FreeCreditReport.com, where consumers must sign up for a $15-a-month service in order to get their credit reports.”

This reveals that the FTC can take on a case for “decades.” Even after it takes a company to court for confusing consumers and reaches a settlement, it doesn’t stop the company from going back and doing it again.

“So why is the FTC making jokes instead of enforcing the law?

Nat Wood, a spokesman for the FTC, says the agency must work within ‘a legal framework.’ The FTC is actively monitoring Experian’s compliance with the 2005 agreement, he said, adding that the agency ‘does not have the power to take arbitrary actions.’”

The FTC doesn’t like to be proved wrong in court. Tax payers quite understandably get upset that their money is wasted when this happens. That being the case, the FTC has to be very cautious to have all its legal ducks in a row.

The FTC decided to fight FreeCreditReport.com’s ads with their own ads – except that the FTC doesn’t have the budget to air them. They are hoping that they’ll “go viral.” This story is from 2009 and the add linked in the story has 47,000 page views on YouTube. Most of them probably came from this MSNBC article. To put it in perspective Rebecca Black’s video about it being Friday has been viewed 160 million times.

The article ends with a big take-away for those rooting for the FTC and consumers:

“But it says something eerie about the state of consumer protection in America that the federal agency charged with protecting us has resorted to satire. Given the size of advertising budgets at companies like Experian, I can’t imagine the FTC can win a marketing war.”

This is why I volunteer much of my time to educating consumers about various scams, like Protandim, when I come across them. I feel that someone has to do it. The FTC hasn’t ever had adequate funding and it is only getting worse as our national debt grows. There are people like Nathan out there with his illegal claims about Protandim and his grandfather’s cancer. He essentially ignored my posts about how he is violating the FTC guidelines and its attempts to protect consumers and bowed out saying, “Time is money and this blog is a waste of my time.”

Sometimes, I think that people like Nathan forget that they are consumers too. I’ve found that greed has a way of doing that to people.

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189 Lazy Man and Money June 7, 2011 at 8:01 am

One thing that may have gotten overlooked in my last comment about the FTC is that they also have to spend their limited budget educating consumers. From the MSNBC article:

“[Nat Wood, a spokesman for the FTC] also said the FTC has another mission: to educate consumers.”

I put this under the adage of “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.” If the FTC can educate consumers about scams in advance, perhaps they won’t get involved with them.

With that in mind, there is a very relevant article here: Protandim, Miracle Claims, Scientific Breakthroughs, and the FTC. It points to the FTC’s page on “Scams and Frauds” and “Miracle Cures” and puts Protandim to the test.

As you might imagine, it doesn’t do so well against the FTC guidelines to educate consumers. People, make your tax dollars go a little further and spread the word of the FTC rather than fight them. They were created to us all.

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190 Lazy Man and Money June 7, 2011 at 8:52 am

Hot Rod said,

“I think that Lazy Man is really stretching his knowledge of the FTC laws because all that Nathan would have to do, or John, or Catherine or anybody that makes a claim that ‘Water helped cure my thirst’ is simply show the proof that the scientists are saying in the peer reviewed articles about water.”

I’m really missing the logic here. Are there are peer-reviewed articles on water about thirst? I’m not even going to look for them because it feels like looking for peer-reviewed articles coats and being cold.

Is Hot Rod really trying to classify “thirst” as a medical condition? I suppose he/she could make a claim that it’s dehydration, which would accurately be described as a deficiency of water in the body. Such deficency conditions are well understood. I sure hope Hot Rod isn’t going to claim that there’s a “Protandim deficiency.”

“Anyway, I’m not criticizing Lazy Man, just pointing out that if you have a question of law, give it to the lawyers to decide if this company or its people have made mistakes, yes?”

I don’t know how anyone has a question with the law here. If there are any questions, please bring them up for discussion, because I believe the documents are very clear. Other MLM companies have warned their distributors about these very points.

It seems that people are not questioning the law, but taking advantage of the lack of enforcement. It seems that the thinking is, “While the cat’s away, the mice will play.”

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191 Dave June 7, 2011 at 11:35 am

Here’s one for Mr HOT ROD to READ

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/protandim-another-kind-of-antioxidant/

Wat to go Joe & Lazy Man!

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192 Joe June 8, 2011 at 10:42 am

Wow what is up with the stock?

LFVN.OB (Life Vantage Corp) DOWN nearly 20% in two days. 6-8-11

It must be that positive news Hot Rod posted (#170) that I was told to read.

Hmmm?

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193 Hot Rod June 8, 2011 at 9:37 pm

Hi guys! Just tuned in. Thanks Lazy Man. Thanks Joe. Thanks Dave.

I bought 10,000 shares of LFVN @ $1.04 today. It closed @ $1.17.
If I sold in the morning, I will gain $1300, approximately. Not bad for starting an eTrade account for free and wiring in the cash. I’m no savvy investor, but if you evaluate what happened after the last announcement of the peer-reviews, the stock did take off at some point, not immediately, that’s not realistic unless it’s announced on CNN.

Gentleman, because you woke me up to do my own research, I will tune in from time to time and tell you how much of LFVN stock I bought and sold and how much I profit and loss. That’ll be fun. Kind of like trying Protandim for 90 days, right? Any positive or negative results I’ll keep you posted

I will hold it, not sell. You guys keep up the good ‘debate’. I’ll run to the bank.

Joe, you wouldn’t know an opportunity if a billionaire handed you one… you’d start questioning the billionaire’s motives, his credentials, his stock broker’s name.

I’m out for now, gotta go close my shop and clean up.

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194 Lazy Man and Money June 9, 2011 at 6:17 am

Actually, it doesn’t require anything near an announcement on CNN for a penny stock like LifeVantage to take off in either direction. Penny stocks are typically quite volatile.

I love when people claim to have bought in at just about the absolute bottom – especially intraday like that. LifeVantage traded at $1.03 for about 5 minutes between 10:45 and 10:50 yesterday. This is when Hot Rod would have had to buy it because the bid price is always higher. I’m sure Hot Rod happen to always buy in at the lows over the next 90 days.

Glad to see the SEC and FTC questions were taken care of to the point where no one debated them any more. If fact you if you read LifeVantage’s 10-K filing you’d find out that they point out FTC compliance as a significant risk factor.

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195 JOE June 9, 2011 at 1:09 pm

Hot Rod
I wish I could believe you. But Lazy Man still makes more sense to me. You don’t have the balls to buy a stock you just heard of plummeting down over 30% in the past 2 weeks. That’s why you and these others on here are distributors. Because you have no balls or money to try a real business.
Maybe you will make a good distributor, because you are full of crap. It seems like that’s the only way for an MLM distributor to get the product moving.

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196 Hot Rod June 9, 2011 at 1:25 pm

You two guys are f###ing idiots. Plain and simple. I’m not a distributor. I am asking about the money side of lifevantage. I may become a distributor. By the way, idiots, I put in a buy order for $1.04 based on the last 90 days. This stock will go up, any mechanic can see that. You guys are finance guys? but you can’t see any opportunity because you are blinded by stupidity.

That’s it for me. You guys win, you are all correct. It’s all a scam that I, an American Capitalist, will take advantage of. You two will still be sitting in nowhere-ville, griping about nothing, when I retire.

Good luck, idiots. By the way Joe Job, you are Lazy Man. And, you are Dave. And who else are you? Oh, Protandim Scams. Oh, and who else? Who cares. You are all stupid.

I will still go to the bank. Oh, Joe Job: $1.21… should I sell it all? 10,000@1.04=$1,700!!!! Not bad for a mechanic! Shit, that’s the profit from changing three engines. And, I just read the financials. You guys are truly stupid.

See ya!

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197 Hot Rod June 9, 2011 at 3:16 pm

Holy sh##! Joe Job! $1.31!!! Good Grief! I just gained $2,700!!!
It’s a DAM GOOD THING I STOPPED LISTENING TO YOU GUYS!

I called a stock broker @ Schwab and they said to sell and take a small profit and reinvest. I think I will.

Serious money is being made for me. that’s not a lot to you rich, unemployed jabber-talkers, but to me, that is awesome!

That is roughly a $2680.00 profit in two days! I will put in a sell order @ 1.32 and see if that happens.

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198 JOE June 9, 2011 at 3:51 pm

Hot Rod
You don’t even make sense with all your flawed lies above. Your are right about one thing though…You are no savvy investor.
How does it feel to lie about making money and not have a cent in your pocket?
You deserve to be what and where you are…….At the bottom…..
Now go be a good little fool and give some distributor your money (If you really have any).
I would rather help someone with a brain.

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199 Lazy Man and Money June 10, 2011 at 12:46 am

Joe, you are right, he’s not a savvy investor… he’s not an investor at all. He is just speculating. The company had no news or significant change of business. This kind of gambling is quite common on these penny stocks.

Hot Rod has managed to turn the debate into something that isn’t directly to Protandim or LifeVantage at all. He can’t verify that he bought the stock at those prices and even if he could, there are others who can show that they’ve lost much more in the past month or so.

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200 Hot Rod June 10, 2011 at 10:20 am

Ahhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! You guys are a joke!
I sold this morning (put in the order to sell @ 1.32) and sold out for a PROFIT (minus 9.99/trade and the wire transfer cost) of over $2740.00!!

You guys want verification? Where do I send the sell order to? You can’t have access to my eTrade account because you are both dishonest.

The debate? This is ALL ABOUT LifeVantage! You guys contradict your own contradictions. You will never amount to anything. It is obvious, that a novice investor like me which I freely admit to so it is no insult, that you two bumbling morons couldn’t find your ass with both hands and a mirror.

YOU LOST THIS DEBATE! I proved I made money on a stock that was “Tanking” in Joe Jobs brain and I got with a stock broker that pointed me in the right direction. I took professional advice and used my gut feeling and walked away in four days with over $2700! That’s a hard pill to swallow for bacteria like you. pun intended.

Wow, someone actually benefited, in some way, from LifeVantage? Yes, me. Thank you two, again for your stupidity. I can’t believe that you insult people on this crappy site when you are completely wrong.

Lazy Man, you got yourself a Joe Job for sure! It has sucked the common sense right out of you.

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201 JOE June 10, 2011 at 11:23 am

Hot Head
The debate here is about Protandim being a scam. Read the title dumb ass.
I’m happy you made money from a stock pick. It still has nothing to do with the products it sells or if its real. You could have bought snake oil and Monavie too.
I wish everyone made money everyday. That’s not the point here hot head. You didn’t prove us wrong about anything, because or should I say “IF” you made money. So You still don’t know what you are talking about.

Now go be a good little monkey and give some distributor your money. By the way, since you are now queer for your broker, ask your him if it would be a good idea to become a distributor. Maybe you can insult him when he disagrees with you too.

Tell your friends John & Nathen I said Hi and good luck.

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202 Ruben June 10, 2011 at 7:34 pm

To Lazyman, I am 21 years old, and a current distributor with LifeVantage and within 2 months I have managed to expand my network to three major cities, one of which in Mexico. Let me tell you, the bucks are a comin in and i L-O-V-E it.. you have been arguing AGAINST this point on Lifevantage for about a month now.. Haha give it up buddy, I suggest that you move on with your LIFE quit worryin about us moneymakers.

P.S Budgets ARE Sexy.

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203 Hot Rod June 11, 2011 at 1:17 pm

Joe Job got taken to the cleaners! Eaten his words! All that crap about a bad stock and LifeVantage CLOSED ON FRIDAY @ $1.51/SHARE!!!! While you were talking, People Made Money. It has Everything to do with LifeVantage! You are just too stupid to realize it.

Lazy Man, Thanks for the hot stock tip! You rock! One of the thing I’ve learned about talking to successful people (one of them is a millionaire friend) is this: “Whatever the normal, 97 percent of people are doing, DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE.” I took your anti-advice and did what I thought was right, invested in LFVN.

I’m a mechanic, as I’ve already admitted, so, “Is Protandim a scam?” I read some of the peer reviews(independent research), read the press releases(company research), read the haters on several blogs–most of them were Lazy Man, disguised as Protandim Scams, Joe, and many others–and concluded for myself that LifeVantage is onto something BIG! They don’t need to ‘scam’ anyone. The universities are saying what Protandim does.

I wish I would not have sold @ $1.32!! DANG

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204 Joe June 11, 2011 at 9:47 pm

Hot Job
Congratulations you made your first investment. Oh wow it came back a little. It’s called volatility. Look it up dumb ass.
So what are you waiting for Big guy? Buy it again. With all this positive news you researched, why should it stop at a $1.51? It should go up to 5, 10 or 20. Right?
You read some of the peer reviews(independent research), read the press releases(company research), read the haters on several blogs.You said “They don’t need to ‘scam’ anyone. The universities are saying what Protandim does.” Put your balls back on little Nancy. Show me I’m wrong again. Shouldn’t you consider quitting your real job? You ‘re on to something here BIG! Become a distributor, maybe become a Pro 10 in no time.

You are a hypocrite Hot Job, because YOU SOLD. You didn’t believe in Life Vantage. That’s why YOU SOLD, you little girl. John, Nathan and the others are bigger men than you because they are in for the long haul.
You are the one that ate his words, not me. I already know it can go up past $2 then drop again. I have no faith in the company. Just like you. THAT’S WHY YOU SOLD THEM. You are a fool. Again you don’t know what you are talking about.

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205 WBlack June 17, 2011 at 11:57 am

Disclaimer: I am not advocating for nor do I have any financial skin in the game; I am a molecular toxicologist.

a) Dr. McCord is a brilliant and *outstanding* scientist in the field of oxidative research; very highly regarded – considered by many the pioneer of oxidative research (discovered the enzyme superoxide dismutase (SOD)) and b) I do understand the research behind this nutraceutical.

The extract has some extraordinary effects on our normal antioxidant enzyme battery – these enzymes are typically up-regulated by Protantim (increase the number of enzymes in our bodies) thereby increasing the elimination of free radicals compared to say just gulping down some vitamin C or E (a single vitamin C molecule is capable of removing 1 free radical; in this reaction the vitamin C molecule is consumed and no longer available to reduce any more free radicals; our antioxidant enzymes on the otherhand can remove millions of free radicals (as well as other adverse chemical compounds such as some aldehydes derived from oxidative stress) and not be consumed by their reactions – termed “enzymatic antioxidants”. Hence the studies have demonstrated a clear decrease in the clinical markers of oxidative stress (ie Malondialdehyde (MDA)-protein adducts, a product of oxidative stress from the autocatlytic reaction called lipid peroxidation – the breaking down of cell membranes).

Unfortunately, the public has been slow to grasp the idea of enzymatic antioxidants versus say, traditional vitamins or even due to the amount of snake oil being sold on the internet these days but this extract has a tremendous effect on elevating several of your body’s natural antioxidant defense enzymes thereby leading to an overall reduced oxidative stress state.

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206 JOE June 17, 2011 at 12:13 pm

Mr Black
Is it safe to say that if you purchased and consumed the following quantities separately and took them together it would have the same effect?
Note: all products are available on Amazon.com and likely at any vitamin store for pennies on the dollar compared to Life Vantage prices

Milk thistle (Silybum marianum) extract (225 mg)
Bacopa (Bacopa monniera) extract (150 mg)
Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) root (150 mg)
Green tea (Camellia sinensis) extract (75 mg)
Turmeric (Curcuma Ionga) extract (75 mg)

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207 Lazy Man and Money June 18, 2011 at 12:32 pm

WBlack,

You start off your comment saying that you are not advocating. However, the rest of your comment is advocating Protandim.

a) No one is arguing Dr. McCord’s credentials. What people are arguing is that Dr. McCord did not invent Protandim. The company hired Dr. McCord for marketing purposes due to his reputation and openly admits this: LifeVantage and Dr. Joe McCord Lie about the Creation of Protandim? When discussing Protandim, it makes as much sense to rely on Dr. McCord’s medical background as it does to rely Michael Jordan’s basketball ability to sell Nike shoes.

Since you had no specific “b)” point to go with your “a)” point, I won’t either. I will get to your response in the next comment though. I just need to use another link to prove my point and the comments here allow only one per comment without approval.

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208 Lazy Man and Money June 18, 2011 at 1:03 pm

WBlack,

Your summary of the up-regulating of enzymes is essentially Protandim’s marketing pitching. It sounds good in theory. However, this marketing is one that hasn’t been shown to be true in any large-scale, placebo controlled, human trials. To date, the company, nor anyone else has deemed the product to have the scientific merit to conduct such a study. All potential consumers of Protandim should take this as a major red flag.

You make the point that “gulping down some vitamin C or E (a single vitamin C molecule is capable of removing 1 free radical; in this reaction the vitamin C molecule is consumed and no longer available to reduce any more free radicals…” This may be true. What you are leaving out is how many molecules are there in a vitamin C pill. I found some 1000mg tablets of vitamin C on Amazon for around 6 cents a pill. It was the first results for vitamin C, perhaps there are better deals. This begs the question of how many molecules of vitamin C are in 1000mgs (one pill). As molecular toxicologist, you should probably know this. However, for the rest of us, let’s use Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D.’s analysis from About.com. She doesn’t do vitamin C… we aren’t that lucky. However, she does use Avocado’s Number to show that “There are 3.34 x 10^13 H2O molecules in a 1 mg snowflake.” That looks to be about 33.4 trillion to me. Of course that’s on one mg, and the pill in Amazon has 1000mg. So that’s about 33.4 quadrillion molecules of vitamin C sweeping up 33.4 quadrillion free radicals (1 molecule per free radical according to WBlack), right?

WBlack then makes the point, “our antioxidant enzymes on the otherhand can remove millions of free radicals (as well as other adverse chemical compounds such as some aldehydes derived from oxidative stress) and not be consumed by their reactions – termed ‘enzymatic antioxidants’.”

So WBlack would have us believe that the removal of millions of free radicals with antioxidant enzymes is better than the removal of 33.4 quadrillion free radicals. There is simply no comparison – vitamin C is clearly much better using WBlack’s own logic. Perhaps he’s going to make a claim that the enzymes are working in the system longer (which isn’t shown in any clinical study). However, if we go there, it should be mentioned that the vitamin C pill that I found is a sustained release meaning that it will also theoretically stay in your system attacking those all those free radicals.

WBlack says, “Unfortunately, the public has been slow to grasp the idea of enzymatic antioxidants versus say, traditional vitamins.” By the public, you mean the scientific communinity, right? The public doesn’t really discuss enzymatic antioxidants.

Finally, you there is the point that WBlack is relying on his professional experience. If he wants to remain anonymous (as “WBlack” is), he needs to cite a reputable public source. If he wants to bill himself as an expert, he should state his full name, experience, and resume so that we can judge his level of expertise. Any anonymous person can come here and claim to be a molecular toxicologist. Such claims need to be backed up.

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209 Lazy Man and Money June 18, 2011 at 1:13 pm

For those who didn’t follow the snowflake analogy above, I did find a source of how many molecules are in 500mg of vitamin C.

The source Yahoo Answers isn’t as good as the doctor on About.com, but the math is done out in detail and it is specific to vitamin C.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081022093012AAThg8Y

Multiple people point out that the answer for 500mg of vitamin C has 1.71 * 10^21 molecules. For the 1000mg, you can double that 3.34 * 10^21 molecules. Perhaps my quadrillion math was off and it is actually a sextillion (a billion times more than the quadrillion). Either way that’s quite a lot more than the millions of free radicals by up-regulating enzymes by WBlack’s claims.

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210 Nathan June 18, 2011 at 3:01 pm

Lol sorry I had to jump in for a sec….. It’s Avogadros number hahaha not Avocados!!! Anyways the body can only consume a number of those mg because the body gets rid of excess nutrients. Haven’t you ever seen how yellow your urine gets after eating vitamins? Max you’re consuming 20%-30% of the vitamin. Protandim ACTIVATES ur enzymes, it doesnt give u nutrients like vitamins

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211 Lazy Man and Money June 18, 2011 at 3:33 pm

Sorry, I’m a big fan of the Trader Joe’s product, Avocado’s Number Guacamole: http://www.hyperborea.org/journal/2005/08/avocados-number/. I think people got the point ;-).

The sustained released nature of the vitamin C that I found should keep the body from digesting it and getting rid of it too early.

Even so, 20-30% of a few quadrillon or a few sextillion is a lot larger of a scale than “millions.”

Nathan actually proved a point here where he said the that body got rid of excess nutrients. If there were free radicals left for the vitamin C, there wouldn’t be any excess, right? ;-)

I look forward to WBlack’s answer to Joe’s question because that is also extremely relevant and requires a sufficient answer.

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212 Nathan June 18, 2011 at 3:43 pm

In all honesty I think ur math might me incorrrect. I’m going to speak to a professor next week in regards to your question about vitamins and post the answer because I know they’re not potent in comparison to the free radical damage. I beleive I read somewhere that were exposed 300 septillion free radicals a day .

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213 Lazy Man and Money June 18, 2011 at 4:05 pm

I tried hard to not to rely on any of my own math as people could simply say that it is incorrect (as you did Nathan). Instead, I relied on the math of a PhD from About.com. Because I realize that people might question the resource because it is about the number of molecules in a snowflake, I provided an additional reference where multiple people did the math (the best answer and another answer below that) for the number of molecules in 500mg of vitamin C.

It should not be question of incorrect math. Everyone’s math shows at least quadrillions of molecules in 1000mg of vitamin C. The enormity of Avogadro’s constant very much ensures it.

If there are 300 septillion free radicals a day, I’d rather have a quadrillion or a sextillion fighting them than the enzymes that can take care of “millions.”

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214 WBlack June 19, 2011 at 9:29 pm

Lazy,
avocado’s \chuckle
Although you are generally correct about “tons of avocado molecules” in a vitamin C capsule it is worth noting for the public that nearly all of the vitamin C consumed is never absorbed by our bodies thus flowing out the other end with last night’s BBQ. As for the molecules that are absorbed, the “overflow” is mostly filtered out in our urine. Also vitamin C molecules have to “float into” a free radical to hopefully inactivate the entity. They do not actively target free radicals.
For what it’s worth, your eyes (specifically tear fluid, the cornea and underlying vitreous humor) have the highest concentrations of vitamin C and actually have vitamin C pumps loading up the tissue from the blood stream (I believe it is around 3-5 times normal plasma level concentrations but maybe more – even up to 25 times but I don’t recall exactly); also eyes retain a fairly high level of vitamin E. Makes sense evolutionarily given the constant exposure to high energy UV-A and UV-B wavelengths in sunlight but I digress.
What you are saying with Avogadro’s number is extraordinarily misleading to the general public and yet another seedling of misinformation found on the internet. I agree it is mathematically possible on paper but completely irrelevant in reality / physiologically. It is very difficult to raise your plasma levels of vitamin C. People eating lots of vitamin C (as with many other water soluble vitamins – viz. daily Centrum) just have very expensive urine.
Also in the scheme of vitamin C versus free radicals: Vitamin C is never destroyed in a free radical reaction. it basically quenches the free radical (inactivating it) and vitamin C itself becomes the free radical (a more stable, less reactive free radical); The vitamin C radical is then further quenched / regenerated back to its parent molecule by other molecules including vitamin E (*I think*), a water *insoluble* vitamin that is important in our cell membranes. So in reality and logically speaking, it is not as though you need to keep replenishing large amounts of vitamin C with even larger amounts of vitamin C capsules.
Lastly, there is not enough data out there to weigh pharmacological effects of vitamin C versus said elevations of enzymatic antioxidant batteries. The antioxidant enzymes are a relatively new field of study (<10 years or so depending on the enzyme) and have limited clinical study; there are numerous enzymes (each of which may have numerous isozymes = genetic enzyme cousins through transcriptional variation) in this generalization each of which has multiple substrate specificities.
There are clues / observations in the general population that some of these green teas, red wines, naturals etc have been reported to have beneficial / pharmacological effects (not to mention some adverse effects). The actual mechanisms for these effects are not well understood even by the experts and are likely combinations of multiple mechanisms and events. Hence the internet capitalists are preying on the uninformed public and taking advantage of the latest Oprah plugs in order to get the public to buy their natural snake oils believing they will live to see 150 years while still looking like a 20 year old.
This is not to say stop taking your vitamins and take protandim instead. Absolutely not but whatever you decide just be sensible and do it in modicum and avoid the latest fads. Again I am not advocating for Protandim. I am not an expert in this area but I understand the data as my PhD thesis studied one of these enzymatic antioxidant type enzymes (aldehyde dehydrogenases). I am personally leery of nutraceuticals because it is a way these companies are able to circumvent the FDA rules and regulations, making it an inexpensive avenue to get the drug candidates to market and capitalize on the latest fad, weight loss, muscle building crap etc. you see in paid programming at 4AM on TV.
We are just scratching the surface in our knowledge of science so what we say is good or bad today may just be the exact opposite tomorrow. As for protandim, again I am not advocating for it or against it – but I will say it is worth paying close attention to in the future because this is the direction of antioxidant research – essentially tweaking our body’s natural defenses to help ameliorate the environmental insults.
We don’t understand how or why these extracts do so – we just see the end result and are scientifically trying to reverse engineer the outcome to understand its mechanism of action. And on the flip side there may be even worse toxicological effects these compounds exert besides the pharmacological effects we focus on.
Protandim raises some of these enzymes – I suspect one or more of the enzymes belong to the aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH) gene superfamily (www.aldh.org) although I don’t know which ALDH isozyme(s) – this is how I stumbled upon this Protandim thread. The actual lab studies have produced interesting data (I looked at the specific gene array data following Protandim exposure) that look to be promising and may have clinical implications for us. It changed the pattern of your enzyme expression (raising and lowering enzymes) which may be why we saw a decrease in the MDA protein adducts of smokers and how Protandim has been extrapolated to be an interesting enzymatic antioxidant.

Anyways, sorry for the long thread. I hope this helps to answer some questions behind the science. I dont care if you take it or not – i know its expensive – but the science is interesting none the less.

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215 Lazy Man and Money June 19, 2011 at 10:33 pm

If you are going to put quotes around “tons of avocado molecules” and attribute it to me, please make sure that I actually said it.

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216 WBlack June 19, 2011 at 10:42 pm

Joe

I couldnt tell you – I could only assume it would have a similar effect. Each plant may have more or less active ingredient(s) just based on the plants genetics, growing conditions etc. For example just look at medical marijauna dispensaries selling pot that has dope with 5% THC up to 27% THC. Its the same principal with these nutraceuticals and I highly doubt quality assurance is a priority in many of these small companies because I am sure most of these guys have no idea what to measure for quality assurance because no one knows what or why these extracts have such an effect. And if they do they are usually hypothetical at best. For all we know these guys are just filling capsules in their mom’s basement with their lawn clippings and calling it milk thistle. Protantim seems to be making the best effort of any to gain an understanding of its underlying mechanisms and publishing these results in peer reviewed literature – but its ongoing at this point.

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217 Lazy Man and Money June 19, 2011 at 11:18 pm

WBlack said,

“…it is worth noting for the public that nearly all of the vitamin C consumed is never absorbed by our bodies thus flowing out the other end with last night’s BBQ. As for the molecules that are absorbed, the ‘overflow’ is mostly filtered out in our urine.”

This is why I specifically chose a delayed release vitamin C pill such as these on Amazon.com: NOW Foods Vitamin C-1000 Sustained Release with Rose Hips, 250 Tablets. This is designed to help it stay in the system.

WBlack said,

What you are saying with Avogadro’s number is extraordinarily misleading to the general public and yet another seedling of misinformation found on the internet.

I only used your previous quote of “a single vitamin C molecule is capable of removing 1 free radical; in this reaction the vitamin C molecule is consumed and no longer available to reduce any more free radicals.” Either what I said was completely logical and not misleading or your previous statement wasn’t accurate.

WBlack said,

“The antioxidant enzymes are a relatively new field of study (<10 years or so depending on the enzyme) and have limited clinical study."


"There are clues / observations in the general population that some of these green teas, red wines, naturals etc have been reported to have beneficial / pharmacological effects (not to mention some adverse effects)."

"The actual mechanisms for these effects are not well understood even by the experts and are likely combinations of multiple mechanisms and events."

"Hence the internet capitalists are preying on the uninformed public and taking advantage of the latest Oprah plugs in order to get the public to buy their natural snake oils believing they will live to see 150 years while still looking like a 20 year old."

Thanks for making a great case against Protandim. The field of study is new with limited clinical study. There are only “clues/observations” of things that are well studied like green tea and red wine. The “mechanisms for the effects are not well understood even by the experts” in a “field of new field with limited clinical evidence.” Finally, you point out that companies prey on the uninformed public with snake oils.

Let’s add to all the above that Protandim was put together in haste after the deal with CMX-1152, which was billed to do the EXACT same thing, fell through. Of course LifeVantage’s solution was to get Paul Myhill, a guy with no background in science, and have him put together 5 common ingredients to create Protandim. The company admitted that it hired Joe McCord due to his reputation.

“I am personally leery of nutraceuticals because it is a way these companies are able to circumvent the FDA rules and regulations.”

One way that companies do that is by going with the MLM method of distribution. They let the distributors make the illegal medical claims that violate the FDAs rules and regulations.

WBlack said,

“Protandim raises some of these enzymes”

What is this based on? There has been one in vivo clinical study and it involved very few people. It was 6 years ago. About 2/3s of the people dropped out of the study. In addition, the company’s own FAQ uses TBARS which is known for being misleading (vitamin C can impact it for instance).

Finally, why didn’t post your credentials since you are claiming to be an expert in the field?

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218 Lazy Man and Money June 19, 2011 at 11:54 pm

WBlack,

Consumers can generally trust USP Verified Dietary Supplements. I don’t believe Protandim is USP Verified.

LifeVantage chose to have their products made by Chemins a company with a very checkered past (having illegally dosed supplements with ephedrine): http://www.protandimscams.com/chemins-protandim/.

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219 Lazy Man and Money June 19, 2011 at 11:57 pm

WBlack said,

“Protantim seems to be making the best effort of any to gain an understanding of its underlying mechanisms and publishing these results in peer reviewed literature – but its ongoing at this point.”

LifeVantage inventor Paul Myhill has admitted that LifeVantage “encourages” the peer studies because “Big Pharma (through its proxy, the FDA) doesn’t allow supplements to make any disease claims”:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lifevantage/blog/2009/03/09/inside-protandim-the-paul-myhill-interview

That “best effort” that you give them credit for is better known as “advertising.”

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220 WBlack June 20, 2011 at 1:11 am

Dont know much about delayed release vit C – my personal practice is just eat healthy so you can skip the supplements until your senior years when systems begin to deteriorate.

My statements on vitamin c are accurate. Either you get it or you don’t want to get it. 1 molecule vit c quenches 1 free radical. that vit c molecule becomes the radical (is consumed) and unable to have any further antioxidant effect until another reductive molecule reduces that vit c radical thereby regenerating it or finally it is further metabolized to a less reactive state and excreted . Until then, the original oxidized vit c is useless. I think however, i was incorrect with vit E. – after mulling it i believe vit C regens vit E from the vit E radical (which makes more sense) rather than vit E regening vit C – it’s been a while so someone else can explain that mechanism from here.

From what I can see you are attacking a product and its marketing and all I can provide is an opinion on the science behind the product. Protandim represents a product that is trying to provide the benefits from a limited understanding in a relatively new field of science as well as publicly trying to provide their studies conducted; to me the science of these extracts is very promising in gaining an understanding of our own biochemistry and physiology as well as to how these plant products are providing such pharmacological effects. I don’t see too many other products attempting to provide research other than the crap run by some inebriated yahoo at their local community college etc.

You harp on the evils of Protandim’s MLM so why don’t you explain to me and the general public how best to market this product from a business standpoint? Give it away for free? Tell the public to go analyze some gene microarray articles in the Journal of Biological Chemistry and then critique a few regression analyses in Free Radical Biology and Medicine? Until I see those articles pulled from some very high impact peer reviewed journals for whatever reasons, I tend to lean on that knowledge over that of the blogger-sphere. Maybe it is expensive like pharmaceuticals as they have to generate the revenue to fund more research and development on its mechanisms. You are the finance guy so check out their financial statements. I would assume these are publicly available based on some of the trading internet tough guys talking on this forum. How much is going into R&D. Is the company profitable? Are they expanding? What is in their development pipeline? I have no idea I am not a finance or marketing guy. But I do know research and development in life sciences isn’t cheap. Only way for it to be cheaper would be to suck from the teat of taxpayer-funded government grants. If you provide a valid strategy to this product’s marketing and development then of course you will increase your blog’s page rank and monetization value so go for it. Love to hear it.

Lastly I never claimed to be an expert on Protandim. I am a mere research scientist curious of this nutraceutical’s scientific basis. I’m not sure what credentials you would want to see. And what difference would it make because anyone can claim they are simply amaaazing. Honestly, I failed to win all of the Nobel prizes thus far but I did study the adverse effects of a lipid peroxidation end-product, an aldehyde called 4-hydroxy-2-nonenal in human corneal epithelia and stromal matrix keratocytes and its detoxification by ocular aldehyde dehydrogenases and am well-published in PubMed.

Yes TBARS can be misleading – particularly if the samples are not processed immediately after collection – the TBARS in the protandim marketing study aren’t misleading. The statistical analysis looks valid from what I can see. TBARS are derived from the lipid peroxidation end-product malondialdehyde and can be extrapolated as an indication of a person’s levels of oxidative stress from their blood plasma. The TBARS results for protandim were also confirmed/verified using Western blot analyses for MDA protein adducts (a completely separate methodology). It’s getting pretty convincing. From what I understand McCord et al are in the process of compiling a huge clinical study with Protandim but using a breathalyzer instrument for measuring TBARS data almost instantly and accurately from a patients’ lung exhalation. I am looking forward to the results. So based on your claims, if this company is interested in just pure profit and is in fact a scam I find it difficult to believe they are dumping copious amounts of money into this very expensive clinical trial (I believe each breathalyzer instrument for TBARS for a single sample are several hundred dollars). As always, one’s actions speak louder than words.

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221 S Robinson June 26, 2011 at 2:17 am

I read your article and I suppose it is a bunch of hype about this product, but I did use it for 2 months, and I have to say, I think it helped me. I know someone who sells this product. I refused to get on the monthly allotment, so she sold it to me without doing so, as a favor. First I bought just one bottle. Didn’t notice much. Then a month later I month 2 bottles. I took these religiously for the full 2 months. Well, 2 years ago I fractured the tip of my humerus(shoulder). It hurts like crazy everyday. I wake up everyday with my shoulder hurting. When I was taking the Protandim for those 2 months, it wasn’t hurting so much. Then I ran out. I didn’t really want to buy more, it was $47 for 1 bottle. But after a couple of days, my shoulder started to hurt like hell again. I hate to admit it, but I think it helped. I take resveratrol now, but it’s not working like the protandim did. I would love to save money buy just buying the herbs, but I’m not sure the ratios would be right. I won’t buy into that MLM scheme though. No way!!!

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222 J. Money June 26, 2011 at 5:51 pm

Hey, thanks for sharing :) I think it’s awesome that it was helping you like that! It’s a shame it doesn’t cost a lot less so you can keep on taking it and feeling better…. to be honest, I’d REALLY love to test it out now myself after seeing all this back and forth action, haha… but def. not spending $40 plus to see what happens. Maybe one day I’ll come across it at a friends place and take a couple of sips :) I’m more curious to see how tasty it is than the affects. It better be damn good! Haha…

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223 Lazy Man and Money June 26, 2011 at 11:12 pm

WBlack,

I didn’t say that your statements about vitamin C were in accurate, I just wanted to point out that if “1 molecule vit c quenches 1 free radical” (your quote not mine) even a small amount of vitamin C in the system would quench trillons, possibly hundreds of trillions, of free radicals.

Another thing that is worth pointing out is that a well-known scientist on my website put together a few research articles showing that it it is a flawed notion that inhibition of free radicals is always a good thing.

I think you should reflect on the history of Protandim and recognize that the company only came up with it because its backs were pushed up against the wall when their deal with CereMedix for CMX-1152 (what was supposed to be Protandim) fell through. It isn’t like there was any kind of science leading to the creation to the product. At least I haven’t seen anything about why they decided to put those herbs together.

Remember that the company has admitted to putting the studies out there because it’s their only form of marketing.

WBlack said,

“You harp on the evils of Protandim’s MLM so why don’t you explain to me and the general public how best to market this product from a business standpoint? Give it away for free? Tell the public to go analyze some gene microarray articles in the Journal of Biological Chemistry and then critique a few regression analyses in Free Radical Biology and Medicine?”

The product was legitamately marketed in GNC for years. They’ve essentially told people to go read Free Radical Biology and Medicine… which by the way is a journal that LifeVantage’s McCord is a boardmember of (meaning he can likely get articles published very easily).

WBlack said,

“Until I see those articles pulled from some very high impact peer reviewed journals for whatever reasons, I tend to lean on that knowledge over that of the blogger-sphere.”

Really? Which journals are the ones with the high impact factor? I haven’t seen any. The closest is Circulation, and that article was published due to the findings that were unrelated to Protandim.

The information, in the blogosphere that you want to discount is provided by the company and other doctors itself. This is a lot more reputable than journal articles when the company admits that those articles aren’t intended for research purposes, but for marketing purposes.

WBlack said,

“Maybe it is expensive like pharmaceuticals as they have to generate the revenue to fund more research and development on its mechanisms. You are the finance guy so check out their financial statements. I would assume these are publicly available based on some of the trading internet tough guys talking on this forum. How much is going into R&D. Is the company profitable? Are they expanding? What is in their development pipeline? I have no idea I am not a finance or marketing guy. But I do know research and development in life sciences isn’t cheap.”

What are the research and development costs? They product hasn’t change since 2005. What development needs to be done. As for research, they are claiming that Universities are doing that, so there are no costs there. It would be similar to Centrum charging $1.50 a pill. Please don’t forget that Protandim is classified as a dietary supplement and refrain from trying to compare to a drug.

Using the information on Google Finance (you don’t have be a financial guy to do this), the R&D for the last 12 months was $390,000. This compares to $16.25 Million in “Selling/General/Admin. Expenses, Total.” The year before R&D was $220,000. That number probably amounts to Dr. McCord’s salary. It would appear that LifeVantage needs a reminder that “research and development in life sciences isn’t cheap.” I suppose that’s what happens when you don’t do research or development.

The company already has a valid strategy of marketing… “valid” in terms of maximizing profits. They are paying their distributors very, very little and those distributors are required to buy the product. In fact if you read the company’s disclosures they pin the financial hopes of the company in selling tools to distributors. For a company with a promising product, you’d think they wouldn’t have to say such things.

“Lastly I never claimed to be an expert on Protandim. I am a mere research scientist curious of this nutraceutical’s scientific basis. I’m not sure what credentials you would want to see. And what difference would it make because anyone can claim they are simply amaaazing.”

People ask me for my scientific credentials all the time. However, I almost never rely on any of my own knowledge. I point people to other reputable sources. You have relied on your own knowledge here and billed yourself as a research scientist. Since you haven’t cited other reputable sources to back you up, you should be forthcoming with your background.

To be continued…

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224 Lazy Man and Money June 26, 2011 at 11:26 pm

TBARS doesn’t seem to have a very good reputation amongst scientists. Dr. Harriett Hall in an cited previously (since I’m limited to one link per commment, please view it above) said, “There is only one study to date in humans, and it only measured markers in the blood. TBARS (thiobarbituric acid reactive substances) is a measurement that has not demonstrated clinical usefulness. I could only find one study suggesting that TBARS levels might be helpful in predicting outcome in patients who already have cardiovascular disease. This review article critiques TBARS and other measures of antioxidant activity and suggests that measuring isoprostanes might be more meaningful.”

On my site Vogel who has shown he knows his stuff said:

“The TBAR assay is not widely used. It’s a shitty error-prone, non-specific, labor-intensive analysis. It has been superseded by more advanced and specific measurements such as F2-isoprostanes, 8-oxo-dG, protein carbonyls, and electron spin resonance. Not all labs are equipped with the tools necessary to perform these assays and not all labs have the personnel capable of conducting the assays. However, in any good lab that specializes in free radical biochemistry, they won’t be conducting TBAR assays. So to answer your question, if someone conducts a study using TBARs it is almost certainly because: (a) they aren’t well-educated about how to measure oxidative stress; (b) they lack the resources or knowledge necessary to conduct better assays; or (c) they did not get positive data using reliable assays, so they fudged their study by running TBAR tests and reported those results instead of the more definitive negative results. “

It seems like once again the company is heading in the wrong direction. Why are they spending tons of money on something that seems to be highly criticized in the field. If such a large scale experiment is being conducted, any results are not going to carry any weight in the scientific community. It seems like the purpose is to give the distributors more marketing ammunition. Yes, it would seem LifeVantage’s actions are intent on speaking louder than words.

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225 dr.logan July 18, 2011 at 12:24 pm

Thank you for this. I didn’t realize what was even in these until this. The ingredients are effective, I take two of them myself everyday. But they can be bought on YOUR schedule for very cheap. A distributor here tried to tell me I NEEDED to take Protandim myself. I was like, I have a BP of 112/70, 6% bodyfat, amazing cholesterol,HDL,LDL levels. I feel great everday, I eat well, exercise, and get adjusted by a DC. What do I need to experience besides a continual loss of money every month? Thank you again. And mice/rat studies mean NOTHING on humans, this has been proven for years.

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226 Lisa Robertson July 21, 2011 at 4:50 pm

Thanks for this lively discussion on Protandim! My sister is getting into selling this product and has convinced me to take it. After reading all of this, I am having second (and third) thoughts about spending so much money on it! One question I would like to addressed is regarding Dr. McCord. It was primarily his reputation that convinced me to give it a try. Why would someone of his stature hang his hat on this product and risk his reputation being sullied if it is as sketchy as some here think it is? I would think he has some integrity…..is he making enough money off of this to risk his reputation?

I’ve been taking Protandim for a little over a month now. Although I am in decent health in general, I have been trying to lower my blood pressure (and no, I’m not overweight). My pressure is lower now, but I’ve also been doing other things to improve my BP, so I can’t say if the Protandim helped or not. I do seem to have more energy, and I noticed I am remembering my dreams every night (I rarely remembered them before). Anyway, those are the things I have experienced so far.

Could you please address the Dr. McCord question? I don’t understand his involvement if this product really is a scam. Oh, also, how can they patent a product like this?

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227 Lazy Man and Money July 21, 2011 at 5:46 pm

Thanks for the well thought-out comment Lisa.

I think your answer to the Dr. McCord question lies in how people in academic world are paid. They make a lot less than private sector.

McCord is an insider in the company which typically means he holds a significant value of the company in stock. According to Yahoo Investor, he has disclosed that he owns 1,981,425 shares of the company. At today’s stock price of $1.46 his stake in LifeVantage is around 2.9 million dollars. If he is able to push the stock price just a dollar he stands to gain nearly another $2 million dollars.

I would ask yourself that if you were an academic and didn’t get your big payday… and you are in your retirement years (as McCord clearly is)… wouldn’t it make sense to cash in if such a company was willing to giving such a big opportunity for it?

I should address a couple other things. I have never remembered my dreams until about a month ago. My wife is actually a little freaked out by it. I haven’t done anything different and she is a witness to it. I’m just chalking it up to weirdness.

There’s a thing called the placebo effect. Essentially just thinking you are doing a good thing to help your body improves your mood, which circles back and helps your body (that’s the Lazy Man interpretation, you might be better off looking it up on Wikipedia). Thus like an optical illusion, you really can’t trust your own health.

Oh as for patenting a product… well here is a great place to learn about the value of patents: http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/04/0408_ridiculous_patents/index.htm

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228 Lazy Man and Money July 21, 2011 at 5:48 pm

Lisa,

I almost forgot, here’s another thing to read about LifeVantage’s patents:

Does LifeVantage’s “Cure-All” Protandim Patent break the Law?

It seems that various authorities (FTC, FDA, FBI, CIA, patent office etc.) don’t communicate with each other very well.

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229 Lazy Man and Money July 21, 2011 at 5:56 pm

One final thought on McCord and Protandim. The inventor of Protandim, Paul Myhill had this to say about McCord’s involvement:

Because the core composition came from a very unlikely source – me –
we initially decided to hide that fact for marketing purposes and
instead rely on the impeccable background of Dr. McCord.

Source: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lifevantage/blog/2009/03/09/inside-protandim-the-paul-myhill-interview

It seems like they are still relying on it since you (Lisa) mentioned that it played a large role in your purchasing decision.

One should naturally question why a reputable company would try to gain customers via fraud, right?

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230 JOE July 21, 2011 at 6:02 pm

Lisa
Lazy Man did his homework on this so he will best answer your question. As for my own 2 cents. He’s making millions and millions on this. As for patents, ie; you can mix Vitamin ABC with water and patent it, I think the pill is a benefit to some humans just as most supplements are. But!, the whole MLM thing and the amount of money it cost is totally crazy. Ask your sister why people have to convince others into buying it. One reason is nobody would buy it at a vitamin store for that ridiculous price. They are more interested in you becoming a distributor instead of a customer. And as a customer/distributor, you WILL be auto shipped each month. Marketers created this service to make you think it’s a convenience to you. We know it’s for them to get your money before you change your mind or slack off of taking it.

Do you think it’s safe to say that if you purchased the following quantities separately and consumed them together it would have the same effect? Remember its not a drug or a medicine. It’s a supplement, like vitamins in spinach. So eat your veggies!

Note that all products are available on Amazon and likely at any vitamin store for pennies (I really mean pennies!) on the dollar compared to Life Vantages outrageous prices.
Milk thistle (Silybum marianum) extract (225 mg)
Bacopa (Bacopa monniera) extract (150 mg)
Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) root (150 mg)
Green tea (Camellia sinensis) extract (75 mg)
Turmeric (Curcuma Ionga) extract (75 mg)

Tell your sister to tell her friend/distributor to get back to her in 4 months or when they made $5000 (which will most likely not happen). Which ever comes first. Most likely they will have given up and lost their money ($600 plus some unused autoshipped bottles at $50 each with more coming next month, lol) just as 99 % of the others did.

No distributor will tell you that.

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231 Lisa Robertson July 22, 2011 at 1:21 am

Thanks for the replies! I asked my sister if she knew that Dr. McCord did not invent Protandim, and at first she said he did invent it. Then she said that some other people had worked on a formulation but it was McCord who came up with the actual formulation used in Protandim. I found a FAQ page on the LifeVantage website which goes into some details about this and other frequent arguments made against the company.

http://www.doesmlmwork.com/index.php/debunk/

I’m sure you’ve seen all this before though! I don’t think they are telling the whole history here, from what I’ve read about the company’s history. I don’t really believe that McCord didn’t want the patent…seems a bit odd.

Oh, and Joe, she says her goal is $7000 a month by next July! Well, she always jumps into things with both feet! Until about 3 months ago, she claimed that essential oils cured just about everything…..haven’t heard a peep about the oils since Protandim came along. Maybe she just doesn’t talk to me about them anymore because she knows how ridiculous I think they are.

Hmmm. I wonder if I should go off the Protandim for a month and see if my blood pressure goes back up…..my own trial!

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232 Lazy Man and Money July 22, 2011 at 9:56 am

I hadn’t seen that page Lisa. Thanks for point it out. It seems to be a response to many of the investigative articles at Protandim Scams as well as articles on my Protandim Scams article. It’s worth noting that this exists to market the product. The copyright on the bottom is “Copyright © 2011 LifeVantage / Protandim Business Opportunity” and it links directly to a Protandim marketplace. It is one of the most biased sources of information available.

I agree with you that it seems odd that Joe wouldn’t want the patent, especially because William Driscoll is listed and he’s not mentioned in this article.

I think you should have your sister set up a series of monthly goals on the way to $7000 by next July… (perhaps $3000 by end of year, $5500 by end of next February, etc.) Then you should check with her at various checkpoints to see if she’s on track.

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233 Lazy Man and Money July 22, 2011 at 9:56 am

Oh, I would be cautious about doing your own trial. Due to the placebo effect, it could appear to work, when in fact it doesn’t.

Furthermore, the FTC specifically warns against this, “['Miracle products'] also might cause you to delay or stop medical treatment for your condition, even when proven treatments are available from your physician.” http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/microsites/whocares/miraclecures.shtm

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234 Lisa Robertson July 22, 2011 at 11:40 am

Ha, well, as far as the “trial”, I’m going to run out of Protandim in a month, so I need to either order more, or go off of it. Either way I’ll be keeping track of my blood pressure, so it will be interesting to see if it goes up when I run out of pills.

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235 John Lerner August 2, 2011 at 7:43 pm

All these idiot distributors brag about Rat Tests and the Money they Make!

Should round up all of these fools and put most of them in Prison for

Illegally proscribing a bunk snake oil product to people who need a REAL SOLUTION!

Watch out for these scamming Crooks at LifeVantage!!!!!

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236 John Lerner August 2, 2011 at 7:48 pm

DOCTOR JOE MCCORD & LIESVANTAGE ARE TRYING TO COVER SOMETHING UP RIGHT NOW….

They claimed directly on their main website, Lifevantage.com for Years that

“Doctor Joe Mccord “Invented” Protandim.”

Then a while back they changed it to.

“Doctor Joe Mccord “CREATED” Protandim”

Now it is being changed to,

“Dr. Joe McCord is the scientist “Behind” “Our” breakthrough product”. Oh Oh, they gonna Axe him?

This link, page, text, has been recorded several times on several complaint sites as it is a direct lie that has suckered in most of their clients since the start!!

See the Lie In Action for Yourself…

Do a search on Google for,

“doctor mccord invented protandim”

You will see it pop up #1 on Google.

The Google Description which has not updated yet, says exactly this……

Scientific Breakthrough

http://www.lifevantage.com/products-breakthrough.aspx – Cached
For example, when Thomas Edison invented the light bulb it changed lives, … Our breakthrough product, Protandim, was created ** Dr. Joe McCord, …

http://www.google.com/search?q=docto…ient=firefox-a

LOOK ABOVE —–
Our breakthrough product, Protandim, was Created ** Dr. Joe McCord, …

The current Google Description shows that Doctor Joe Mccord CREATED PROTANDIN”, but next time Google updates that page, this old description will be erased.

So now is Your Chance to SEE for YOURSELF a COVERUP IN PROGRESS!!!

Proof of Deception directly on http://www.LifeVantage.com Website!!

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237 John Lerner August 2, 2011 at 7:54 pm

In 2005, Doctor Joe Mccord told the Denver News Station, CHANNEL 7,

THAT HE INVENTED PROTANDIM.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/heal…49/detail.html

But all of the US PATENTS, ETC,, say 2 other people “INVENTED” it.

LiesVantage and Fat Ass Mccord have Fooled Millions! It is time to put a stop to it!

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238 John Lerner August 2, 2011 at 8:43 pm

I actually met Doctor Mccord,

It was by accident, I was at the San Diego Convention, and we were both walking in and bumped into each other and started talking for about a minute before my Friends came up and shook his hand,

Even my friends said, “Don’t ya know who this is? He is the guy who invented the stuff”,
and we looked at maccord and he smiled and nodded his head.

He said he had to go on stage, and away he went

I was told by dozens of people that he “Invented It”, etc

That show got so me jazzed u, I was ready to concur the world.

6 Weeks later after I sold over $9,000.00 Dollars worth,
I did not get paid 1 penny for any of those sales!

I found Test kits from a very specialized company that I was going to have custom branded so that “Free Test Kits”, or cheap test kits could be available to all, so ALL could see Proof that it works. The test kits were Top Priority.

1 Hour before meeting at San Diego Corporate office in Mission Valley, the VP of sales
called and canceled, it sucks, we had a limo rented, we were all dressed up,
and we have the manufacture ready to do a conference call.

Gee, something that tests Oxidation and free radicals for less then 2 dollars, and you can do it at home, and get results at home, and no body cared at all.

no one bothered to even ever call me back, after leaving dozens of messages after.

That was 3 months ago or so, and I posted publicly about the test kits many weeks ago.

NOT ONE SINGLE LIVEVANTAGE ANYONE SEEMS TO CARE AT ALL!!

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239 R.H/ PLEASE KEEP CONFIDENTIAL August 15, 2011 at 1:57 pm

IM HERE TO TELL U IM A DIST IN JHON BOWERS ORGANAZTION AND HE IS A
FLATOUT LIER , CHEAT, CHECK BOUNCER SCAMER I HAVE EVER RUN ACROSS
AND THESE ARE FACTS ME AND SEVERAL OTHERS IN HIS ORGANAZTION CAN CONFIRM.HE SHOWS UP WITH HIS BUDDYS AT A MEETING THEY ALL CLAIM TO BE MAKING 4K TO 6K A MONTH AND THEY SUCK U IN FOR $700 BUCKS U REACH PRO 5 AND LUCKY TO SEE $1000 DLS A MONTH.SORRY GUYS BUT WE HAD OUR OWN LITTLE INVESTIGATION ON MR BOWERS HE ONCE HAD A DARIY QUEEN FRANCHISE AND COULDNT EVEN KEEP THAT ALIVE AND LOST IT AND NEVER FULLFILED HIS OBLIGATIONS WITH THEM THE STORYS GO ON AND ON TO MANY TO LIST PEOPLE BEWARE THIS IS A DOUBLE DOUBLE DIST IS A SCAM AND THE PRODUCT IS A SCAM IF U LET HIM IN YOUR HOUSE HIDE THE GOLD.IM VERY SURPRISED THAT LIFEVANTAGE LETS A EX CON LIKE THIS OUT OF HIS CAGE BUT THE ONLY THING WE CAN COME UP WITH IS HE SCAMED LIFVEVANTAGE ON HIS IDENITY I THINK COMPANYS SHOULD DO SOME BACKROUND CHECKS BEFORE YOU LET SOMEBODY BE A PART OF YOUR TEAM. WE DONT EVEN WANT HIM IN OUR TOWN WE ARE GETTING SOME SIGNATURES TOGETHER TO REQUEST MOVING OUT FROM UNDER JHON BOWERS OR IF NOT WE ARE GOING TO BAIL WE WILL KEEP YOU UPDATED

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240 Lazy Man and Money August 16, 2011 at 1:07 am

R.H/ PLEASE KEEP CONFIDENTIAL,

I’m not surprised to hear that consider John Bowers behavior here.

That said, I should mention that LifeVantage doesn’t care who it takes as distributors. Anyone can be one regardless of their past or history of scamming others.

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241 Sauron August 29, 2011 at 3:27 am

“One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.”

You people remind me of that scene where the Men, Elves, and Dwarves were bickering over what to do with the One Ring, not knowing that they were probably being manipulated by it. Just saying.

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242 Lisa Robertson September 21, 2011 at 12:17 pm

More and more claims are coming out of Protandim distributers….

One is that Navy Seals are now using it and/or studying it……I’ve been trying to verify this one way or the other, but I’m not getting anywhere. Any idea if this is true or not?

They are also playing up the fact that a Protandim study is published in the AHA journal, “Circulation” and that it is the first time in history that a supplement has ever been mentioned in that journal. (Of course they say that the AHA funded the study, but we know that isn’t really true.)

Another claim: There are 20 universities currently studying Protandim and they are independently funded, etc.

Apparently Donny Osmond and his D.O, Dr. Royal, are endorsing Protandim too.

Anyway, this is the latest drivel I’ve been sent. Any comments, Lazy Man? Are the Navy Seals really using it? Or is that another lie?

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243 Lazy Man and Money September 21, 2011 at 1:47 pm

There seems to be no evidence that the Navy is using it in any way. There are no press releases or anything from the company as best I can see. Recently a commenter on my blog analyzed the Navy Seal in depth. You can read that here:

http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/lifevantage-protandim-scam/comment-page-11/#comment-595203

It boils down to what you’ve realized, Lisa. There doesn’t seem to be any definitive source out there, but rather it seems to be a carefully crafted mention of studies the Navy does in with other Protandim studies so that people would think that there is some kind of relation, where that doesn’t seem to be the case.

It is worth noting that the AHA journal article was not about Protandim. The reason it was published was unrelated to the use of Protandim.

They’ve been claiming that 20 universities are studying Protandim for a long time now. Universities do not typically study products, people at them do. Since LifeVantage has admitted to “encouraging” these studies, it’s unclear what kind of bias is present.

I saw the Donny Osmond thing. When I brought up Donny Osmond, before I even mentioned a connection to Protandim, my wife said, “I hope his face doesn’t fall off from all that plastic surgery. It is so obvious.” I had to laugh.

The more interesting thing is Donny Osmond’s herbalist, Dr. Dan Royal. My blog has been abuzz with him of late. He’s a paid LifeVantage distributor and speaker. Dr. Dan’s latest gig is getting people to pay him a $100 “administrative fee” for before and after tests on Protandim. He wants to get a 1000 LifeVantage distributors to do this to prove the product. In other words, he wants $100,000 worth of business.

By receiving kickbacks for his recommendations, Dr. Dan Royal could find himself in trouble with the medical boards. This is a clear ethics violation. It’s not that surprising since Dr. Dan Royal’s website is full of all kinds of medicine that is widely considered quackery.

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244 Darrell September 28, 2011 at 12:42 am

A friend tried to sell this to me to help with my diabetes and it sounded too good to be true, which by your postings, it is.
Thanks,
Darrell

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245 karen September 28, 2011 at 2:49 pm

Dr. McCord confirmed to all lifevantage distributors that the Navy Seals are in fact conducting a study on Protandim, as are the US Rangers. This information was released last week after questions from several distributors came up. The first year of the Navy study is finished, and they are underway with the second year. Feel free to contact Dr.McCord at Lifevantage for any and all timeline of events that take place, and a list of who is currently conducting studies. Darrell, our diabetes study is completed and awaiting the publishing process. We do not know the details of it, butt when it is published I hope that your friend contacts you again.

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246 Lazy Man and Money September 28, 2011 at 5:13 pm

Karen,

Are you talking about the video of McCord that is referenced here: http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/lifevantage-protandim-scam/comment-page-11/#comment-595203 ?

Can you please provide the specific links and proof from Dr. McCord that the US Navy is studying Protandim because the video that was reference there never specifically stated it. It carefully implied it in such a way that the company could clearly say that it never made any such claim, but that distributors would be lead to believe it did.

Dr. McCord is supposedly a very busy person. It doesn’t make much sense for interesting parties to contact him to verify this rumor. Simply point to the company’s official press release on the matter and that will suffice as all the evidence we need.

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247 Lazy Man and Money September 28, 2011 at 5:29 pm

Also, Joe McCord’s compensation was updated by the company in a recent 10-K filing: http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/849146/000119312511258536/d225491d10k.htm

“Monthly Compensation. Dr. McCord’s monthly compensation for his services under his employment agreement is $10,000 per month. In addition, Dr. McCord is eligible to receive a monthly commission equal to the product of fifty cents multiplied by the total net bottles sales of Protandim® (or substantially equivalent new products) during the preceding month. Dr. McCord was not awarded any additional stock options in fiscal year 2011 in connection with his hire.”

He already has millions of stock options, so now they are compensating him with 50 cents for every bottle sold. For a guy that lied for years saying that he invented Protandim, a wise consumer should be very skeptical of anything he says since his compensation is directly tied to his marketing of the product.

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248 Karen September 28, 2011 at 5:33 pm

It was discussed on a lifevantage page. The question came up and lifevantage responded. Contact Dr. McCord and the lifevantage company for an official statement. He has always taken the time to answer our questions.

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249 Lazy Man and Money September 28, 2011 at 5:52 pm

Please give us the link to the specific LifeVantage page it was mentioned on. It isn’t enough to contact Dr. McCord – this is the kind of statement that needs to be made in writing.

As a publicly traded company, the leaking of this information from a LifeVantage officer (McCord is an official officer of the company as revealed in their latest 10-K filing), it could be a
Sarbanes-Oxley violation.

Karen, if what you are saying is truthful, the company could be in significant regulatory trouble. If you are a fan of LifeVantage, you should hope it isn’t true.

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250 Karen September 29, 2011 at 2:51 pm

It could be, but it isnt. No details of the studies were released. We are never given any details of any study. We have no idea when they will be released or the conclusion of each study until it is published. Contact Dr. McCord. He can send you an official statement.

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251 Lazy Man and Money September 29, 2011 at 4:21 pm

The point is that investor information has to be available to all potential investors. McCord can’t disclose this information to me if I contacted him. He can’t send me an official statement without putting it up on up on the Investor News section of the website for example.

You’ll notice that there is no written record from the company anywhere about any affiliation with the Navy or any studies involving Protandim and the Navy.

If it were true, LifeVantage should be telling the world to get investors. They aren’t. According to you, they are only releasing this information if you ask them privately.

Do you have an official email address for Dr. McCord? Just to prove you wrong, I think I’ll shoot off an email and we’ll see what the official statement is. Of course you could do this as well and forward the official statement to J. Money to prove its authenticity.

If you this company hiding information and not publicly announcing it isn’t ringing warning bells in you head, I have some fabulous bridges to sell you. I take Paypal.

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252 Lisa Robertson October 3, 2011 at 12:24 am

Here is the latest financial report for LifeVantage. Any comments?

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/s/?view=att&th=132c7f28e7c8a877&attid=0.1&disp=attd&safe=1&zw

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253 Lazy Man and Money October 3, 2011 at 1:09 am

Just one comment… we can’t read your email.

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254 Lisa Robertson October 3, 2011 at 1:24 am
255 Lazy Man and Money October 3, 2011 at 1:38 am

I checked out the stock price after the release of the financial data and it went from $1.60 to $1.35 in a couple of days. Looks like it was a disappointing quarter for LifeVantage.

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256 Lisa Robertson October 3, 2011 at 10:57 am

So based on their financials, are they being misleading in the above report, saying it was a record year, etc.? My sister seems to think the company is “growing like something she’s never seen before” and is buying stock. I have absolutely no business background, but when I look at the numbers I just see a LOT of debt. Is Lifevantage putting an unjustified rosey spin on their numbers, or is there something there I’m not seeing? I’d appreciate your input on the report LifeVantage put out.

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257 Lazy Man and Money October 3, 2011 at 2:20 pm

Press releases by their very nature are going to be rosy. They are about trying to get people to buy into the company. Even companies with disastrous results will try to put a good spin on it. If you don’t believe in yourself, no one else will.

I think the company is growing, but that’s the result of their push into MLM. Growth in MLM is often about one person trying to find the bigger fool. LifeVantage is trying to give distributors the ammunition necessary to make more fools. Thus far they seem to be doing a good job by peppering the journals and paying McCord millions to market the company.

If you are looking to invest in a company, it would be wise to stay away from small ones that are essentially penny stocks. In the most recent 10-K filing LifeVantage said that this is a risk. They also mentioned that the potential risk from regulation from the FTC was a risk as well. They essentially have one product (do they still have the cream?) and if that is proven not to work all your money is gone.

You should read the risk factors at around page 21 of http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/849146/000119312511258536/d225491d10k.htm

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258 Lisa Robertson October 3, 2011 at 5:41 pm

Thanks for that info, I looked at the risk factors and it was an interesting read. Previously, I had tried to warn my sister about investing in this company based solely on the fact that what they have is a patented recipe and IF it does turn out to be a miracle pill, other companies just have to tweak things a bit and jump into the market too. I also pointed out that there were other things out there that activate Nrf2, but of course she shot those down as not being as good (because McCord said so….). Well, I just hope she doesn’t get in too deep. Thanks for your info!

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259 Lazy Man and Money October 3, 2011 at 6:00 pm

Actually one of the ingredients in Protandim was known to be an Nrf2 activator before LifeVantage – http://www.protandimscams.com/cheap-curcumin-in-protandim-activates-nrf2-and-stimulates-free-radical-production/

It does so by actually creating free radicals and relying on the body’s defense mechanisms to fight them. This is like lighting your house on fire to meet a cute fireman (or fire woman).

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260 JL December 4, 2011 at 4:05 pm

I know a lot more about Protandim than this guy does. Sorry to say but this article is very piecey and out of context. Thanks for the words, but too many fill-in-the-blanks for me!

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261 Lazy Man and Money December 4, 2011 at 7:49 pm

JL,

How is the article out of context?

If you need more blanks filled-in, I have a recently updated article at http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/lifevantage-protandim-scam/.

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262 Lance December 5, 2011 at 1:51 am

I have recently been introduced to this product (Protandim) by a self-confessed MLM junkie. He is a very good friend and must have brought 12 – 15 different products and payment schemes to me over the past 10 years. I always look at them out of politness and have ventured into a few. I am one of the very few who can state that they have made real money out of MLM yet I never sell the “business” only the product. I never sell the product unless I have tried it myself and believe that there are difinite benifits to be gained that I cannot genuinely obtain by cheaper means. This means that I have rejected a lot of MLM businesses and empathise with those who believe that MLM is a scam by other names.
You can sense a scam when the introducer starts off by telling you who much money you can make or by saying that you only have to sell enough to get your own product free. My policy is if the product doesn’t work or I feel it is too expensive, or I am tied to a monthly autoship many times more costly than what my own consumption of the product would be then it is a dud. I particularly dislike the so-called binary system of many MLMs as they will suck up your time and energy just to make the factory rich.
However I must point out that I have been exceptionally pleased with a few of the products and have been quite pleased to not only use them myself but to also recommend them to family and friends. I never look for “fellow distributors”, don’t care about the money making side and am never disappointed if a client should say that they are not proceeding with the product for whatever reason providing they have given it a fair go.
PROTANDIM has caught my interest where other pill and potion MLMs have not. I am going to give it a 3 month trial measured by my Doctor and will make a judgement on those results as to whether I will continue to do so or drop it. If succesful I will write testimonies as to what it did for me as many have already done. If I am genuinely confident that I derive benefits from the product I will urge others to try it and see what results they get.
Now that my interest has been stirred I will not sit on the fence guessing about whether I should try it or not and will not just sit in the background sniping at those who do give it a go.
This is my advice – forget about making a fortune out of MLM…it doesn’t happen. If you have an issue that may be addressed by a certain product and others with a similar ailment have had success without side affects why not just give it a try and make your own judgement. Most of these MLM products can be bought without going in for distributorships and autoships (after all that’s what the distributors are supposed to do…DISTRIBUTE not just sign up other distributors) and if you find a product that eliviates your distress/ailment then you can make the call on whether it was worth it or not.
I am a businessman owning 3 different types of commercial operations. I have a postgraduate degree in Management and now have 40 years experience behind me in business – I don’t consider myself to be guilable or a fool yet I am open minded enough to try new avenues and pathways. Every so often, after turning tonnes of dirt you will pick up the nugget that could solve all your problems.

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263 Lazy Man and Money December 5, 2011 at 2:34 am

Lance,

I thought I’d warn you that your trial has failed before you even start it. There is something called the placebo effect that makes your whole plan invalid. In this case, you can not tell if a product works by trying it.

30% of people or more will feel that a inert sugar pill alleviates their distress/ailment. How will you know whether Protandim was actually effective or if you were one of the 30%?

There’s a reason why we require large-scale, clinical trials for medicinal products and we don’t rely on, “Just try it and see what happens.”

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264 Steph December 11, 2011 at 9:30 am

I AM THE TYPE OF PERSON WHO IS SKEPTICAL OF EVERYTHING BUT I WENT AHEAD AND ORDERED A 3-MONTH SUPPLY OF PROTANDIM JUST TO TRY IT OUT AND SEE HOW IT WORKS. I DON’T SEE ANY OF THE INGREDIENTS BEING HARMFUL. PLUS, WHO HAS THE TIME TO ORDER/BUY ALL OF THE INGREDIENTS IN PROTANDIM, MIX THEM, MOLD THEM INTO A PILL, ETC . . . EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT AND WHAT WORKS FOR ONE PERSON MIGHT NOT WORK ON ANOTHER PERSON. IF THE NUMBNESS ON BOTH MY HANDS AND MY DAILY FATIGUE ALL GO AWAY AFTER MY 3-MONTH TRIAL PERIOD, I WILL DEFINITELY BE A DISTRIBUTOR. IF I DO NOT SEE ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE 3-MONTH TRIAL PERIOD, I WILL CREATE A BLOG TELLING PEOPLE THE TRUTH THAT IT DID NOT WORK FOR ME INCLUDING A WEEKLY PROGRESS LOG FOR MY 3-MONTH TRIAL . I AM ALREADY RICH AND RETIRED AT 39. SO, I DO NOT NEED TO PARTICIPATE IN A MLM. HOWEVER, I AM PASSIONATE ABOUT ANYTHING THAT CAN MAKE A HUGE POSITIVE IMPACT ON THE LIVES OF MANY . . . . . . MORE TO COME : )

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265 Anita January 6, 2012 at 3:20 pm

Paul Myhill, the primary inventor and patent holder of Protandim and Co-founder of LifeVantage is now writing up the “Protandim Development History.” After each entry, he’s pasting the relevant link on his new “LifeVantage / Protandim Founder’s Page” on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/protandim.inventor

Be informed!

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266 Tim January 28, 2012 at 4:20 am

mate I appreciate your watchfulness and attention to some of the rubbish that is sold. My own testimony is as follows. I have been taking karvezide 300/25 – caduet 10/20 – and atenolol sandoz 50mg for close to 4 years for Hypertension, I also have type 2 diabetes. If I missed a day on these tablets I would be throwing punches, narky, spinning out passing out. My blood sugars were moving up into the 12-14 levels. Normal is under 6. I have not taken any of my medication for 3 weeks now. After a 7 weeks on Protandim My high blood pressure is normalising, as is my blood sugars. My doctor was so blown out she is now taking Protandim. My own background is in Homoeopathic, Naturopathic Herbalism Social Sciences. Back in the 70′s we were confronted by the finding s of certain Homoeopathic researchers who had found that disease had been driven into the DNA. So what we were experiencing was a symptomatic manifestation of deeply driven diseases. psoriasis, pseudo psoriasis, gonorrhoea and syphilis. All symptomatology derived from these diseases. All we were dong as health professionals was dealing with symptoms that were running and hiding then re-appearing as something else within the drug picture of symptomatology. The findings through research testing on protandim is profound as it hitting the DNA. This totally amazing. And something we have been waiting for for a long time, plus with evidence of environmental stresses also changing DNA it is even more of a tool now to re-set the DNA in people lives back to defult

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267 Jay January 30, 2012 at 10:14 am

This is my story about Protandim, I have changed the names in this story to protect the innocent.
It all started about 6 Months ago when a friend of mine named Phil told me about a pill called Protandim, I paid little attention to it but Phil was rather persistent so I said I would do a little research, I did a little research and decided to give it a miss as I figured $60 was to much to pay for something that had a 99.9% chance of being just another pill that didn’t work as promised. (I am trying to be as diplomatic as possible here)
Some weeks later Phil contacted me again and told me of the outstanding results he and his friends were having with Protandim, I suggested that he give me a bottle for free so I can try it for myself, Phil didn’t like that idea as much as I did.
I decided to purchase the 5 ingredients separately on line and mixed them together with highly accurate laboratory scales. Probably not a very clever thing to do because including shipping it ended up costing me more than $60.
I took the powder every day for around 2 to 3 Months but it seemed to have no effect, I am fairly healthy anyway so maybe I don’t need a fountain of youth just yet.
Once again I forgot all about it and went back to my normal diet. Ok you guessed it, Phil wasn’t going to give up that easy, he mentioned Protandim again; I told him that my home made concoction did not seem to have any effect; Phil said I need to go to a Life vantage Meeting with him and his girl friend Claire.
Claire is into all the Herbal medicines, she has a vast knowledge of many natural remedies. I normally would never go to a MLM meeting but Phil is a good friend.
There were about a dozen people at the meeting; a gentleman called Dylan did a very professional PowerPoint presentation on Protandim. During question and answer time I asked Dylan about my home made concoction, he immediately answered “It only works if you buy the pills”, (WOW, I wasn’t expecting that). He went on to explain about the synergy of the 5 ingredients; I guess I couldn’t argue with that as I do not know how synergy works. Everyone at the meeting had nothing but praise for the product.
Phil, his friends and family were defiantly having positive effects when taking Protandim. This got me thinking that there may be something to it. Ok I feel a little miserable for doing this but I actually purchased a bottle of Protandim on EBay because it was $10 cheaper than Phil’s Protandim, it also added 2 to my eBay feedback.
I finished the bottle of Protandim but once again I didn’t really feel any benefit.
When I told Phil he said that they were probably fake because they were purchased on EBay but at a later date he said it was likely that I didn’t take them for long enough.
If I were to continue using the pills and spending money with no obvious benefit it is likely the excuses will keep coming, for example the next excuse could be something like;
“Just because you don’t feel any different doesn’t mean that there is no benefit to your general health”
I have convinced Phil that my days of Protandim are over (I hope). The ongoing positive effect on Phil, his friends and family still intrigues me though; it will be interesting to see what happens a year or so from now.

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268 Corey Whitlaw February 1, 2012 at 8:41 pm

Corey Whitlaw is the owner of Lazy Man and Money. His sole purpose is to create half truths and distortions to create an online debate with distributors, so he can increase his organic ranking on Google, so he gets paid for advertising.

He edits what people put on there, so he can keep the debate going. The good replies are not shown (or edited), nor are many of the supporters on his website actual people, he just makes them up.

Just so you guys know… compare a man who’s alias is Lazy Man with no address, no peer review, no Q&A or audit trail, to Dr McCord, one of the most respected and validated people in his field, with all the peer review etc.

I don’t trust Corey Whitlaw at all, and neither should you.

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269 J. Money February 2, 2012 at 10:43 am

PS: No discussions on this thread has been edited by me (Jay, owner of Budgets Are Sexy), except for a few that have been vulgar. For what it’s worth.

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270 Lazy Man and Money February 2, 2012 at 4:26 pm

Corey Whitlaw,

Thanks for outing me. I’d like to address some of the points you made. I do have an address. It is not like Comcast delivers internet connections to cardboard boxes. I do have a Q&A process and a peer review, it’s called the comments on the site. Numerous top distributors at LifeVantage have commented.

I do rarely edit the comments, but I disclose exactly what the edits are why I am doing them. Just about every time it is because the comments are vulgar (like J. Money mentioned) or that the comment isn’t on the topic of Protandim and instead only meant to insult the messenger of the information (i.e. me).

Yes, compare a whistleblower like me, who doesn’t want any of your money to McCord who has disclosed to the SEC that he’s got millions from LifeVantage and he wants you to give him your money.

If you think I have the time and energy to create personas or that I want to keep a debate going you couldn’t be more mistaken.

Corey Whitlaw said,

“I don’t trust Corey Whitlaw at all, and neither should you.”

Thanks for the quote of the day. Yes it is clear we shouldn’t trust you.

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271 Ginger February 4, 2012 at 2:24 am

“Corey Whitlaw” (or whoever you are) – Thank you for letting us know about Lazy Man. I see he’s a skilled debator, and great and getting his website promoted; I do a lot of advertising on google, and I see that his site takes a lot of advertising dollars because of its rank on affiliate ads, its pretty easy to see what he’s doing. He fed off of the monavie growth (a product I don’t know), and now he’s doing the same to protandim so he can make lots of advertising income by promoting against the growth of these companies. For all we know he’s paid to spread his disinformation. In looking at his website I found many half truths and distortions when I fact checked it. He keeps enough truth to debate on solid ground, but puts many distortions or out right lies to keep an ever growing list of protandim sellers on his site to debate it with him, keeping his website ranked on google.

While I agree the protandim research is not the large scale clinicals that we see with big pharma drugs, but the science seems rock solid in comparison to just about any supplement on the market I’ve ever seen. Im sure some distributors for them over state what protandim will do, but that happens even in the healthfood store from the lady behind the counter. But its a very good product, and I found out this for myself, and I don’t even sell it. I took it before it was MLM, and it was more expensive then, I get it cheaper now through a friend who is a distributor, and Im glad she makes a doller or two from me, instead of the corporation at GNC, somebody I don’t even know.

Protandim is a good product and affordable by comparison to many similar products that claim to do less. Lazy man in his attempt to promote his website and make money with his half-lies, is most likely keeping people from trying protandim, and likely keeping people from something that could really help them.

I too don’t trust lazy man’s website either, so thank you for that information, now maybe we can learn about more who mr lazy man is.

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272 Debra Daingerfield February 4, 2012 at 4:14 pm

WOW. I have been reading these comments (more like arguments that remind me of high school only using bigger words) and I am totally turned off by the comments here.

I went looking for online research NOT associated with Protandim in any way to get an idea of the pros and cons I found wuite a bit. The pros were all sites that were advertising protandim and the others were sites saying it is not worth the money or talking about the pyramid type of set up.
A couple of friends of mine (actually a married couple) has been trying to get me into the MLM of protandim for awhile now. I am not one for sales as I like to provide services (accounting) and am a single mom with very little income as I am still going through school for my Bachelors in Accounting. I am not interested in network marketing but my friends still want me to try the pills and even offered to pay for the first months pills. She did all the paperwork and set up an account. Apparently this is a autopay type of service (which I am also not fond of). I told them I would try it and they said they would check with me in a few weeks and if I liked it, we would switch over payment liability to me.

Let me just say that $50 a month for a pill is alot regardless of the type of pill it is, but especially for single mom making her way through college. I took my first pill today and will continue to take it out of respect for my friends but honestly, the comments made by many of you defending Protandim and containing very nasty negative and spiteful comments don’t really make your case for you. It makes me think you are mean people that are afraid of word getting out and ruining your financial means (which I can understand to a certain point as making money is important to most people).

However, your nastiness and venom towards the skeptics only pushes potential customers away. I will let my friends know what I have read here, what I posted and why I will not only NOT be a distributer, but most likely, I won’t be a customer either. I truly hope my friends are kinder than you distibuters on here have been. I would hate to lose a friendship over something so trivial in the bigger picture.
If your product really is such a great product, I would like to hear from people who have been taking it for long periods that aren’t ALSO benefiting financially from it. Also, if this is really about helping people be healthier and not just profit, I think it is shameful to charge $50 a bottle for it much less make it a monthly obligation through autopay. Vitamin supplements are helpful but they don’t cost $50 a pop either and I can go get them from any drug store in America. Now THAT is helpful.

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273 shawna February 5, 2012 at 12:36 am

Wow, what a lively blog!
I’ve also been approached about Protandim and Life Vantage. Like many ppl here, I’m trying to perform my own research and due diligence before getting involved in any way. It’s obvious the author of this blog does not believe in Protandim as a viable supplement to better one’s health. I do wonder what his thoughts are on these vitamins, supplements, hormones and/or pharmaceuticals:

Human growth Hormone (HGH)
Testosterone
Estradiol/Estriol
Progesterone
Thyroid
DHEA
Pregnenolone
Melatonin
Cortisol

These above are the chemicals/hormones listed on the website for The Hammer Institute, advertised on this page. I find it interesting, as they’re making many of the ‘anti-aging’ claims that the distributors for Protandim seem to be making.

I would also like to gather his thoughts on Instaflex, which claims (copy and pasted from the page you’ll be directed to by clicking the advertisement):

The proprietary compound includes proven joint ingredients such as Glucosamine and Turmeric Root, but it’s the fast-acting White Willow Bark Extract, Hyaluronic Acid, and boswellia Serrata Extract that provide the biggest kick. Instaflex’s compound comes in three pills that are taken once daily in the mornings or evenings. Instaflex works to comfort, relieve, and support your joint function. Take Instaflex to relieve your joints, then long-term to support your joint function.

Joint pain is one of my reasons for researching Protandim, as I’m looking for some relief for my husband, who is becoming debilitated with joint problems/arthritis. Is Instaflex a better option than Protandim?

How about SYNVISC®, also advertised on this site. : SYNVISC® (hylan G-F 20) and Synvisc-One® (hylan G-F 20) are indicated for the treatment of pain in osteoarthritis (OA) of the knee in patients who have failed to respond adequately to conservative non-pharmacologic therapy and simple analgesics, e.g., acetaminophen.

Is this better than Instaflex? How about the hormones used at The Hammer Institute? Do you recommend those over Protandim?

Im more confused now, than when I started this ‘research’!

Thanks for your help!

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274 shawna February 5, 2012 at 12:42 am

Wow, what a lively blog!
I’ve also been approached about Protandim and Life Vantage. Like many ppl here, I’m trying to perform my own research and due diligence before getting involved in any way. It’s obvious the author of this blog does not believe in Protandim as a viable supplement to better one’s health. I do wonder what his thoughts are on these vitamins, supplements, hormones and/or pharmaceuticals, (since they are advertised on this page):

Human growth Hormone (HGH)
Testosterone
Estradiol/Estriol
Progesterone
Thyroid
DHEA
Pregnenolone
Melatonin
Cortisol

These above are the chemicals/hormones listed on the website for The Hammer Institute, advertised on this page. I find it interesting, as they’re making many of the ‘anti-aging’ claims that the distributors for Protandim are making.

I would also like to gather his thoughts on Instaflex, which claims (copy and pasted from the page you’ll be directed to by clicking the advertisement):

The proprietary compound includes proven joint ingredients such as Glucosamine and Turmeric Root, but it’s the fast-acting White Willow Bark Extract, Hyaluronic Acid, and boswellia Serrata Extract that provide the biggest kick. Instaflex’s compound comes in three pills that are taken once daily in the mornings or evenings. Instaflex works to comfort, relieve, and support your joint function. Take Instaflex to relieve your joints, then long-term to support your joint function.

Joint pain is one of my reasons for researching Protandim, as I’m looking for some relief for my husband, who is becoming debilitated with joint problems/arthritis. Is Instaflex a better option than Protandim?

How about SYNVISC®, also advertised on this site. : SYNVISC® (hylan G-F 20) and Synvisc-One® (hylan G-F 20) are indicated for the treatment of pain in osteoarthritis (OA) of the knee in patients who have failed to respond adequately to conservative non-pharmacologic therapy and simple analgesics, e.g., acetaminophen.

Is this better than Instaflex? How about the hormones used at The Hammer Institute? Do you recommend those over Protandim?

Im more confused now, than when I started this ‘research’!

Thanks for your help!

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275 Greg Barnes February 9, 2012 at 7:43 pm

@ Debra D: Yes, vitamins are a lot cheaper than Protandim, but they are far, far less effective at fighting Oxidative Stress. Vitamins, taken at the strongest dose your body can absorb, can eliminate only about 50,000 free radicals a day. Protandim takes care of about 1,000,000 each second of each minute of each hour of each day! You tell me which is better!

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276 Derek Humphrey February 27, 2012 at 12:02 pm

http://www.pubmed.gov ,search protandim. 10 peer to peer studies(not clinical huge difference), over 20 colleges investing their own millions of dollars. some you may who you may of heard of, LSU, OSU, and Harvard to name a few. ignorance is bliss, must be true.

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277 Leah March 7, 2012 at 6:54 pm

My grandma had cancer it’s now gone. My mom has lupus, she’s now off of all her medication. Now tell me it Doesent work!

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278 Jay March 9, 2012 at 9:17 am

I still consider my days of Protandim over regardless of this compelling evidence.

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279 Sacked March 11, 2012 at 1:51 am

Lazy Man isn’t Corey Whitlaw.

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280 Jay March 11, 2012 at 8:54 am

Are you saying that Corey Whitlaw doesn’t own lazyman.c0m?
That notion alone could prompt litigation.

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281 John Lerner March 20, 2012 at 9:34 pm

Wow, the blind sheep cannot, and will not, keep trying to lie, cheat, and steal Your Money!

Doctor Fat Ass Mccord LIED TO EVERYONE CLAIMING HE INVENTED PROTANDIM!!
IT is a Flat Out 100% LIE!! Proven several times, and LIES Vantage removed that false claim!

If the Doctor You trust LIES to you About Inventing the Pill he wants you to take, is good?

CMX-1152 WAS THE MAIN INGREDIENT IN MOST ALL OF THOSE BIG TESTS.
They removed it. What was left? Snake Oil!!!!!!1

LIESVANTAGE ARE NOTHING BUT CROOKS! BENT TO STEAL YOUR MONEY!

The Last Shipment of Pills that came, I told UPS to send it Back.
Called LIES VANTAGE about Refunding me, and they told me exactly this..

“Sorry we cannot refund you because you sent it back to the wrong Address.”

This is after I sold a ton of it, 4 bottles to over 40 Customers only to have been robbed 100% Out of Commissions that got paid to “People Above Me”.

DO I GET A PENNY FOR TELLING ANYONE THIS? OF COURSE NOT!!!

Only reason I post at all is to try to help people figure out this SNAKE OIL SCAM!!!

LIESVANTAGE LIE, CHEAT, and STEAL..

Oh, I forgot to mention the watered down version of the Pill is not high quality.
IT IS A CHEAPLY MADE PILL. Heck show the pill to any Pharmacist and ask them,
Is this high Quality? They will in fact explain to you why it is NOT.

Good Luck you Brainwashed Sheep Distributors!!!

STOP TELLING LIES TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE!!!!

PROTANDIM IS NOTHING BUT CHEAPLY MADE SNAKE OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

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282 John Lerner March 20, 2012 at 9:56 pm

I ONLY WISH, I never went to that LIES VANTAGE San Diego Convention
where I met so many MIRICLE PILL DISTRIBUTORS who LIED, Cheat, and STEAL.

I love their million dollar sound system, paid by stealing innocent peoples money!

After they flat out stole thousands of dollars from me,

I spend 3 months or so getting to the bottom of the PILL.

It Costs them Approx $1.80 Per Bottle to create the shit pill, put it in a Expensive Bottle,
with a Nice Label on it.. It is not about the marketing, which is full of CON ARTISTS!

My next step was to Study the Pill Itself, and I learned so much TRUTH behind the SCAM,
that it made me sick.. I appologized to everyone I sold to during my 30 day test marketing.

I should have known something was wrong when I told LIES VANTAGE while I was still a Misguided Sheep surrounded by Wolfes who are nothing but THIEFS,
that I an fact contacted a manufactor recommemned by FEMA, to create TEST KITS
to TEST BEFORE and AFTER taking the Crappy LIES VANTAGE PROTANDIM PILL,
that only cost $1.82 Per Home Test Kit..

Test kit to measure “Free Radicals” and “Oxydated Stress”.

I wanted everyone to be able to see the Proof for themselfs.

To me, I would be able to become a Millionair because my niche would be to give
Every Customer Free Test Kits, and post those results on http://www.ProtandimStudy.com

I thought LIES VANTAGE would be so happy..

They wanted nothing at all to do with it. I did not get back 1 single phone call on it..
After that, the robbed me out of 100% Commissions, etc.. Then later I learned the Truth!

So ask yourself a Question…

TEST KITS ARE CHEAP, I WENT TO A PLACE OUR USA GOVERNMENT USES
to make low cost Test Kits for all sorts of things…

Test kits only cost a couple of dollars each…

IF LIES VANTAGE HAS ZERO INTEREST IN TEST KITS.

DOES THAT NOT SAY ENOUGH?

That is of course after the Paid Doctor LIED Several times about him Inventing It..

I could go on and on but why bother, the Brainwashed Distributors will say anything to steal your money!!! I have already lost tons of time and money.
I have nothing to gain by sharing any of this with you. I just want to help people see
the truth behind this SCAM LES VANTAGE SNAKE OIL..

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283 Mike March 21, 2012 at 1:58 am

Sorry there lazy man but your name fits you perfect! This is probably the best product (supplement) in history. Anyone reading this LAZY article needs to grab a little MOTIVATION and continue with your research. I just started selling PROTANDIM. I’m a total skeptic and still have a hard time believing what I’ve seen with my own eyes. Human Testing?? Every PROTANDIM Distributor has human proof. When I see a 74 yr old man, who’s had High Blood Pressure for years, have a normal reading of 120/80 after 12 days of using PROTANDIM I became less of a skeptic. Then My Career Hair Cosmotologis Girlfriends Karpul Tunnel just magically disapears after 15 days of using PROTANDIM. Oh yeah and she’s had that discomfort along with aching feet and aching lower back for 13 years. Yes she is so happy to be free from that nagging pain now. Oh, here’s another example: Girlfriends friend has rhuemetoid arthritis now for about 8 years. Every morning when she gets up she gets up very slowly with the assistance of her dresser to aleviate the pain in her cracking crunching feet. She can barely walk from the pain on her feet. She said she’s tried everything and has been on prescription meds the whole time. 3 Days. Yup, 3 Days after taking PROTANDIM she calls at 7am astonished that she crawled right out of bed, walked to the bathroom. She says about 50% of her pain is gone. Wow there Lazyman. Keep being Lazy Buddy.

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284 Mike March 21, 2012 at 2:13 am

Oh, ill be sure and update you all with the rest of my clients after their 2 weeks to a month using PROTANDIM. Their current conditions are the norm theses days. We all know someone that has Diabetes, High Blood Pressure, Arthritis, Elzheimers, High Cholesterol,Hepatitis C. LOL. Seems to me the LAZYMEN on here are badmouthing this product in FEAR for some reason? LOL. Thats so easy to figure out. ;) Again, I’ll update you all on the progress. Again, I’m just a normal guy that was looking for a second job and was at the right place at the right time for once in my life. Again, if your reading this LAZY Article, trying to make a decision on PROTANDIM then continue your research. You’ll find the truth once you see all the testimonials. As for the rest of you, Stay LAZY with your mounting Oxidative Stress. Here’s a simple thing to look up: what raises your Glutithione Level to 300%? Protandim. Look at the Parkinsens Disease Patient on youtube who recovered after 30 minutes.

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285 Harry March 22, 2012 at 5:02 am

JOE …. Where did you go with the stock quotes???

Its been less than a year Joe, and the stock is now at $3.30 per share…. more than what is was On 5-13-2011,when LFVN.OB (Life Vantage Corp) hit $1.91 per share…..

just sayin !

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286 Lazy Man and Money March 22, 2012 at 7:42 pm

Debra Daingerfield,

You are dead on with your comment. Thanks. LifeVantage filed paperwork in 2006 with the SEC that it costs them $1.20 per bottle including packaging and labeling. You are right to think that if the product was helpful, it is particularly shameful for them to charge $50 a bottle for it. Someone might say that Big Pharma does the same thing, but they actually have Research and Development costs and expenses. The company has spent only 1.44 Million in Research and Development since 6/2008 (using their publicly available financials). It wouldn’t be a good comparison.

Shawna,

You can ask J$ about this, but the advertisements on this page appear to Google AdSense, which means that he doesn’t control what gets advertised. Google picks something that it feels would be similar or what it knows from your previous browsing history. Both J$ and I are personal finance bloggers. You should ask your doctor about any of those other products you see advertised.

Greg Barnes said,

“Vitamins, taken at the strongest dose your body can absorb, can eliminate only about 50,000 free radicals a day. Protandim takes care of about 1,000,000 each second of each minute of each hour of each day!”

Where did you get such false information from?

Derek Humphrey,
Go to ClinicalTrials.gov and search Protandim and read the results. They are abysmal to say the least. LifeVantage can’t get anything positive to work in people and have resorted to test tube and animal studies with few test subjects instead.

Leah,
I’ll tell you it doesn’t. Give me the doctors’ information who says that Protandim cured cancer or Lupus, I’d love to talk with him/her. Also, realize that LifeVantage admits that it doesn’t work for these conditions as they openly say that, “Protandim is not intended to treat, cure, or prevent any disease.”

Mike said,

“Human Testing?? Every PROTANDIM Distributor has human proof.”

It’s called the placebo effect. You should look it up and understand what it means. You can see in circus acts from faith healers as well. The test is to do a placebo-controlled study and evaluate the benefits. See the above point about ClinicalTrials.gov to see how well that is going for LifeVantage.

Oh and since you called the people taking Protandim, your clients, I presume you are a distributor. You might want to brush up on the terms and conditions of the distributor contract regarding testimonials. Also you may want to give Google a search for “FTC Endorsement Guidelines.” You’ll find that what you are posting is illegal.

Harry,
I think you’ve got good point on Joe there. I think I’d take your gains now and run. When the FDA and FTC shut it down for the illegal claims that people like Mike are making and it drops down to 7 cents over night, you’ll be glad that you did.

I’ve always said that MLMs are good business for the company (i.e. LifeVantage). It’s just terrible for the distributors (they get paid less than minimum wage on average while being forced to buy the product) and consumers (they have to pay $50 for a bottle of pills that costs LifeVantage $1.20 to buy after the real manufacturer takes their cut.) I made the point back in comment #118 that this is why you see Buffett and Trump buying the companies and not being distributors.

The investment in LifeVantage with their clearly illegal activities is a risky one. I’m not one to push my morals on other people, but I wouldn’t support a company openly breaking the law and defrauding consumers like LifeVantage. It’s almost like buying a tobacco stock, except the consumer is well aware of the dangers associated with that.

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287 Jay April 20, 2012 at 8:38 pm

LFVN stock peaked at $4.00 mid March. On February 8, 2012 is when Donny Osmond appeared on the Dr. Phil show promoting Protandim, this date coincides with a steady rise in the share price from $1.50, could this be a coincidence? This company seems to have never paid a dividend and has no Earnings per Share which as far as I know would suggest that it has never made a profit, not exactly a blue-chip share by any stanard. Anybody following charts to follow this company should forget the charts and follow Donny’s movements instead. I forecast a steady decline in the price back to around where it was pre DR. Phil unless Donny pops his head up somewhere else promoting Protandim. I don’t think that this stock would have been Rene Rifkin’s idea of having good fundamentals and if alive would probably recommend a strong sell.

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288 Lazy Man and Money April 20, 2012 at 11:07 pm

For a long time the company insisted that McCord invented Protandim. Recently Myhill came out with a letter from McCord saying that he didn’t contribute significantly to Protandim.

http://static.protandimscams.com/images/mccord-didnt-invent-protandim.jpg

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289 Billy Jones May 17, 2012 at 10:32 am

http://protandimzombieapocalypse.wordpress.com/

Protandim is a mixture of Herbs, which alters or buffers the current levels and electrical impulses in the Brain and nervous system, it is an “Herbal Electric Shock Treatment”. Altering the Brain waves, be it mechanical or Herbal, both will produce the same results and have long term effects, which you may never recover from. The end result is similar to a lobotomy.

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290 Ruben May 19, 2012 at 9:49 am

lol people who waste their time e arguing about a product like yourself lazyman have mental issues. That is alll.

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291 Jay May 20, 2012 at 10:24 am

I am not a fan of Protandim but I must say that Billy Jones post is ridiculous. If you go to that link the guy is either mentally disturbed or has a very warped sense of humour.
Perhaps he lost his girlfriend to a colt and then went crazy. I must admit though that it was quite humorous in parts.
This blog seems to be losing momentum, maybe no one Google’s Protandim anymore, can Zombies Google?

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292 Jay May 20, 2012 at 10:40 am

LFVN is on a downward trend , the sell recomendation still stands.
I also spelt cult incorrectly but on second thought maybe leave it as is, it still fits.

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293 Tolkien June 3, 2012 at 1:02 pm

I love this line of thinking. I think Life Vantage has created this in order to create the buzz it needs.

How many times does John say God Bless but then completely blast the person because they do not think like him? (makes some people believe him others abhor him, thus creates the long thread and drama).

How many times has Lazy Man baited John to respond?

I do not doubt that there are solid opinions here, but realize you guys are all caught in silliness. If you like MLM’s good, if you don’t then good. If your company plants then you will reap your own rewards. Let’s not play like we have a corner on the truth however.

Cheers

PS I like Protandim, who cares if it is placebo, herbal shock (nice phrase Billy I am sure it will get passionate followers soon) a scam, or some other evil way of getting money. People like to think they are helping their health and it works for the stated purposes that it does.

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294 Ray June 4, 2012 at 9:01 pm

As I read the comment on this site that are pro and con I understand both sideds but I do have to comment on the con side and their reasoning. I find their is some type of prejudice by them for whatever reason, pride, unhappy about competiton because they work for another company, don’t like LifeVantage or whatever.
The bottom line comes out Protandim has been tested and shown so far very good results. I personally know of a person who had some very bad problems with his heart, mind, stomach, skin discoloring, his feet were black and he couldn’t feel anything on the bottom of his feet. His legs were black and breaking apart and swell up so he couldn’t walk. I watched him as he took Protandim and I really didn’t know anything much about the product to say anything one way or another.
I now have watched him for three weeks and he is a changed person, mentally and physically and Protandim is the only thing he takes for the problems I have nentioned. His feet are back to pink and his legs are getting back to being normal color.
I was stunned at what i saw I have been in the health field for a long time and have never seen anything like this. He use to spend his time at home sitting in his comfortable chair doing little because he couldn’t do much because of the pain in his legs. Now he is up and going every day to do something he enjoys.
The bottom line is Protandim works and I have seen the results personally. You can argue all you want about how it is a scam or whatever you are doing but you can’t argue with the results. I also have know a lady friend of mine that I had not seen on years who has had some very hard problems to deal with she told me she was taking Protandim and now she like my other friend is finally enjoying life without the physical problems they had been bogged down with. You see results is what I look for. Show me something works to eleviate the problems one has had and they had tried to find relief through the normal procedure but only ended up being issued drugs and never gotten any better and then they started taking Protandim and I see them getting better each day and you are trying to undercut this I realize you are living in a whacked world of pride and prejudice.

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295 Bradley Slavik June 5, 2012 at 1:20 am

Hello

I was given a sells pitch by a friend for Protandim about five months ago. The meeting consisted of two parts. First part was about what Protandim could do for me physically.

Given the fact that I am now 52, experience physically pain in one of my hips and joint pain in my knees from heredity issues and from playing football from 7th grade though all four years in college.

So, when I saw the video at http://www.abcliveit.com and from being shown the information that follows, I wanted the try the Protandim with the hopes that a product with four patents and eleven peer-reviewed studies would give me relief for chronic pain

From a Protandim brochure…Every second of every day of our life, our cells are bombarded by toxins that are produced when we consume food or take in oxygen. These toxins, know as oxidants or free radicals, can wreak havoc on all components of our cells, including lipids, proteins and our DNA.

Our bodies are designed to fight off these free radicals with survival genes. But by the time a person reaches age 20, the number of free radicals produced increases, while the number of defense genes to fight off these free radicals decreases. This leads to oxidative stress. Oxidative stress contributes to the symptoms of aging.

Critical to the fight against oxidative stress is the protein messenger Nrf2. In the words of LifeVantage Chief Science Officer Dr. Joe McCord, Nrf2 “significantly modulates the expression of more than 1,000 survival genes, enabling our body to cope with oxidative stress and other kinds of stress as well.” Nrf2 can switch on protective genes and switch off genes that have a negative impact on health.

There are ways to call Nrf2 into action. Certain foods, especially fruits and vegetables such as broccoli, will give you a brief stimulation of Nrf2 for approximately 24 hours. But there is another way to activate Nrf2, one that is much, much more powerful than antioxidants you can get by consuming fruits or vegetables.

Protandim, the Nrf2 Synergizing Supplement, induces cells to produce more Nrf2. In this approach, every enzyme molecule can eliminate up to 1 million free radicals per second. The stimulation of Nrf2 offers a promising hope against the effects of free radicals and the effects of aging they cause.

Results are what count! After taking Protandim for three weeks my knees hurt less when I walked down stairs. In two months my blood pressure improved. After a little over two months, I started working out at the gym again. Now, I have been on Protandim and TrueScience for five months…AND, I will never ever stop taking this remarkable product.
To be Cont.

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296 Bradley Slavik June 5, 2012 at 1:40 am

Hello again,

See my previous posting

As the second part of the presentation (just a one on one talk…friend to friend), my friend told me about how the MLM part of LifeVantage worked. The first question I asked him was…how many products do I have to carry by LifeVantage? I was glad to here that there were only two, Protandim and TrueScience (a topical cream version).

Because I own a day spa, I listened to what my friend had to say. And, after reviewing the material from LifeVantage, I agreed with my friend that the supplement and cream would fit well in our services and products for purchases by clients.

So, I became a distributor…because I believe in what the science behind the products offer short-term and long-term. So far, clients have been receptive to both of the products.
______________________________________________________________
To be Cont.

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297 Bradley Slavik June 5, 2012 at 2:01 am

Hello again,

See my two previous postings.

I am very interested in the motivation behind the motivation of “Lazy Man and Money”???

Is this web sight only interested in helping people understand how MLM’s work and don’t work?

Or do you really make money off people doing searches on the internet? It’s interesting to think of all the time and effort that the person behind this sight puts into talking about the proposed negatives from the products from LifeVantage (for example).

Something for everyone to think about before they click on any links from the LazyMan sight. I am sure he is making a good living off click throughs and advertisers (links to other sights with products and services).

Be well and live healthy.

Bradley

PS I have a M.B.A, worked in the corporate world for years, and have own my own business for over 15 years.

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298 Jay June 6, 2012 at 10:14 am

Accusing people like lazy Man for making money from putting down MLM companies like LifeVantage is DUMB, I do it for free, Lazy Man has done nothing more than create a forum for all of us to put forward our views. I have made multiple posts on this forum for free because (like Lazy Man) I don’t like to see people get ripped off.

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299 Dr. Burke June 27, 2012 at 5:27 pm

There is NO proof at all. I’m sorry about any placebo effect that is occurring. But when you boast about the money you are making it only strengthens the obvious. No REAL medical trials the inventor is a BUSINESS MAJOR. NOT a real doctor.

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300 Tommy V July 9, 2012 at 7:27 pm

I have been a researcher at The Institute for Stem Cell Biology and Regenerative Medicine at Stanford University, approached by a friend of mine requesting to do some research and exam a formula code name LVX-251, by that time he did not mention the name or even show me the bottle from the packaging, just 30 pills in a clear plastic lunch bag, and told me, “verify of its ability to increase in SuperOxide Dismutase (SOD) and Glutathione, and also if you can, describe in detail the relationship between such dose and the cellular level from the human biology.

By concealing the identity of the branded name, he want to make sure that I will not be disturbed by outside news and media about the negative comments for this product, instead, find out the usefulness about this particular dose.

After 3 month of independent trial. The result is very promising, on the right track, however, it’s too early to conclude or claim its potential and how magical this supplement can do, it’s still too new and too early to make a final judgment call.

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301 Jay July 11, 2012 at 9:00 am

Tommy V seems to me to be another Protandim Distributor. His proof as a Stem Cell Biologist ends here.

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302 Rush July 11, 2012 at 9:48 am

I think Protandim might be the greatest thing since sliced bread. If it is, why would the company need to conceal its true inventor? Also, why is the company touting the “peer reviewed” articles? Do any of these distributors know what “peer reviewed” actually means? I don’t much care whether their peers “reviewed” their conclusions. What I care about is whether their peers replicated their results. The answer to that question, as far as I can tell, is no. Not because the science is incorrect, but because they haven’t even tried. To me, this is a huge red flag.

If this stuff is everything that the company says it is, it would nearly be as an important discovery as finding a cure for cancer. If that were to happen, every scientist in the world would be trying to replicate the results of the initial research. In this case, it seems that no one cares. The video I watched was from 2005. To date, it doesn’t appear that large scale studies have been done by anyone, including the company that sells the stuff.

Having an MBA from a respected business school, I am somewhat familiar with what is taught regarding the marketing of products. I found the article about Harvard to be laughable. There is no way that the factors discussed in the article tell the entire story. There is nothing about differentiation. Nothing about economy of scale. Nothing about competing products. Nothing about the initial quality of the product. All of these factors would be of utmost importance when considering whether to market via network marketing.

You cannot compare LifeVantage to Tupperware, Pampered Chef, Avon, or Mary Kay. Ask yourself why you think Pampered Chef, for example, is successful. Is it because the products are superior than those you could buy in a department store? No. The answer is because the buying experience is enjoyable for the customer because it is done in the living room of a friend or acquaintance and it is turned into a party. I don’t think anybody would show up to a Protandim party, so the reason it is sold via MLM has to be because of different reasons than the historically successful models.

Think about Cutco. Why are those knives sold via MLM? They are manufactured using a cheaper type if steel that causes the knife to dull faster. So does Cutco want their knives on a store shelf next to other knives that are made from a superior alloy for a lower price? Of course not. So another purpose of MLM is to sell products that could not compete in a store filled with competing products and being sold by a sales force that has no loyalty to one brand or another. I think that is where LifeVantage finds itself. If LifeVantage could have their product on the shelf at GNC or Wal-Mart, you’re lying to yourself if you think they wouldn’t do it in a heartbeat. They could sell it for half the price and make a heck of lot more money due to economy of scale.

All of this means one thing to me: LifeVantage doesn’t want to compete with other companies and they want their sales force to make their claims for them, which after all this time, are still largely unsubstantiated.

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303 Lazy Man and Money July 11, 2012 at 10:36 am

I think I was unsubscribed from this thread as I didn’t get notices on comments (or they went to spam). Here’s some catching up:

Ruben said

“lol people who waste their time e arguing about a product like yourself lazyman have mental issues. That is alll.”

People who attack those trying to prevent companies from scamming people out of their hard-earned money have mental issues. That is all.

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304 Lazy Man and Money July 11, 2012 at 10:37 am

Tolkien said,

“I love this line of thinking. I think Life Vantage has created this in order to create the buzz it needs. “

I assure you that LifeVantage does not like the buzz of me exposing their scam and their lies that McCord invented Protandim when he did not.

How many times has Lazy Man baited John to respond?

I didn’t bait John to respond, I simply just addressed the points so that people can see John’s points were terrible and not based on fact. I guess you could claim that by typing this I’m now baiting you to respond.

“I do not doubt that there are solid opinions here, but realize you guys are all caught in silliness. If you like MLM’s good, if you don’t then good. If your company plants then you will reap your own rewards. Let’s not play like we have a corner on the truth however.”

There are clear fact like LifeVantage lying about McCord creating Protandim and coming up with the natural substitute as the product it was intended to market, CMX-1152, got pulled. These are not opinions. If I sold Lazymandium (a combination of chile powder and garlic powder) as a cure for cancer without proof and certification from the FDA it would be illegal. LifeVantage does this Protandim, which is also illegal. It isn’t opinion and it is simple truth. Let’s not pretend that it is fine for companies to lie and break laws in an effort to bilk consumers out of their hard earned money and issue platitudes not based on any logic such as ‘Let’s not play like we have a corner on the truth however.’”

“PS I like Protandim, who cares if it is placebo, herbal shock (nice phrase Billy I am sure it will get passionate followers soon) a scam, or some other evil way of getting money. People like to think they are helping their health and it works for the stated purposes that it does.”

Taking a placebo can be dangerous as it could mask other underlying conditions and cause them to go untreated. As for who cares if it is some other evil way of getting money, every consumer (i.e. everyone in America) should be concerned.

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305 Lazy Man and Money July 11, 2012 at 10:37 am

Ray said,

“As I read the comment on this site that are pro and con I understand both sideds but I do have to comment on the con side and their reasoning. I find their is some type of prejudice by them for whatever reason, pride, unhappy about competiton because they work for another company, don’t like LifeVantage or whatever.”

That’s very unusual and erroneous analysis. First there is no real pro and con sides here, it’s just the point of view. I claim that I’m pro-consumer and against getting scammed. You may look at it as others being pro-Protandim and me being anti-Protandim. In any case, the people who are for Protandim are paid by LifeVantage to sell the product. This is a tremendous financial bias. My pro-consumer stance doesn’t have any prejudice as I don’t make any money from people buying Protandim. I just want to avoid people getting scammed.

Ray said,

“The bottom line comes out Protandim has been tested and shown so far very good results. I personally know of a person who had some very bad problems with his heart, mind, stomach, skin discoloring, his feet were black and he couldn’t feel anything on the bottom of his feet. His legs were black and breaking apart and swell up so he couldn’t walk. I watched him as he took Protandim and I really didn’t know anything much about the product to say anything one way or another.”

Protandim has not been sufficiently tested to show any significant results. Their last clinical trial showed better results in the placebo group (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22268125). Previous “tests” were done in test tubes or animals and this human one outweighs them all. Also from ClinicalTrials.gov we can see that further Protandim clinical trials from Protandim have been absolute failures. Also note that all three clincial trials are at the University of Colorado Denver, where LifeVantage’s Joe McCord has done his research. In all the other universities elsewhere no one is interested in runnning any clinical trials.

Thanks for the anonymous testimonial. However, or a number of reasons we know that in health MLMs, testimonials are pointless. You suggest that he couldn’t possibly be subject to the placebo effect because he didn’t know much about the product. That’s irrelevant, people know that they take pills to feel better, so there could be some kind of subconscious benefit. There’s no link to knowing a product for a placebo effect to take place.

Lastly, that person isn’t very smart if he’s just taking pills that he knows nothing about. When your legs turn black and start “breaking apart”, it’s probably time to go see a doctor, and not experimenting with pills you don’t know much about invented by a marketing guy.

Ray said,

“I now have watched him for three weeks and he is a changed person, mentally and physically and Protandim is the only thing he takes for the problems I have nentioned. His feet are back to pink and his legs are getting back to being normal color. I was stunned at what i saw I have been in the health field for a long time and have never seen anything like this. He use to spend his time at home sitting in his comfortable chair doing little because he couldn’t do much because of the pain in his legs. Now he is up and going every day to do something he enjoys.”

That’s amazing. Can you give us his doctor’s name and number so we can verify this Black Leg syndrome and see what he’s doing to get Protandim approved by the FDA to help with it? I presume that with these incredible results, there’s already a filing with the FDA from LifeVantage, right? Can you do everyone here a favor and supply a link to that document?

Ray said,

“The bottom line is Protandim works and I have seen the results personally. You can argue all you want about how it is a scam or whatever you are doing but you can’t argue with the results.”

You could also tell me about the talking unicorn in your garage make the same argument. Provide proof or it didn’t happen. Like any medicine that is to approved for helping people, I want to see the proof from the clinical trials that were sent to the FDA. Round up the people with “Black Leg” and do a clinical trial. These people need help before their legs break apart like your friend’s. Since your comment is a month old, I presume that the clinical trial is already underway, right?

Ray said,

“I also have know a lady friend of mine that I had not seen on years who has had some very hard problems to deal with she told me she was taking Protandim and now she like my other friend is finally enjoying life without the physical problems they had been bogged down with.”

This is even better than the Black Leg guy, it can help with generic “very hard problems to deal with” and after Protandim enjoying life “without those physcial problems.” These are very scientific testimonies, I see. We’ve got an anonymous person posting about a friend that he hadn’t “seen on years” with some undiagnosed very hard problems that Protandim supposedly fixed, despite the fact that LifeVantage admits that Protandim doesn’t treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Maybe the “hard problems” were financial related or like Calculus.

“You see results is what I look for. Show me something works to eleviate the problems one has had and they had tried to find relief through the normal procedure but only ended up being issued drugs and never gotten any better and then they started taking Protandim and I see them getting better each day and you are trying to undercut this I realize you are living in a whacked world of pride and prejudice.”

I look for results too. I just want to see the results from clinical trials, which is what millions of scientists worldwide agree is the best method of determining whether something works. LifeVantage hasn’t been willing to do these clinical trials to show Protandim works like other approved medicines. It’s a very simply process and if LifeVantage wants to help people, it would be irresponsible for them not to do it.

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306 Lazy Man and Money July 11, 2012 at 12:00 pm

Bradley Slavik gave a long retelling of a LifeVantage promotional brochure. Parts of it may be accurate, but there are a couple of parts that are not.

1) Protandim wasn’t promoted as a Nrf2 activator until the last couple of years, that’s years after it was created. In fact it was never mentioned in any of the early papers. This is LifeVantage finding a rising trend in science and saying, “Hey, we use that!”

2) Cheap Curcumin in Protandim Activates Nrf2 by Stimulating Free Radical Production. This means that you can go to your cupboard and pick out some cheap tumeric and have some right now. Secondly we tumeric works by increasing oxidative stress and activating the bodies natural defense. This is like setting your house on fire to attract police and firemen and then claiming that you are safer because you are in the presense of police and firemen. It may be true, but it is very curious, backwards logic.

3) “In this approach, every enzyme molecule can eliminate up to 1 million free radicals per second.” Ahhh, the great “can” and “up to” qualifiers in the same sentence.

Bradley Slavik says that results are what counts. We agree on that. The National Institute of Health’s PubMed site (Pubmed.gov) explains the need for clinical effectiveness research of products. Why is it that Protandim has few clinical results and only failed ones in the last 5 years?

Slavik also goes on to say that he was glad that there were only two LifeVantage products. That doesn’t seem make sense. If you really believed that Protandim worked for you, then you’d clearly only need to carry that product.

And it isn’t surprising that you became a distributor, you have financial bias in selling the product. It is obvious why a spa owner would want a product to help with his joint condition. If it does then this not only helps his health, but adds financial security. These factors could explain a placebo effect. Also, congitive dissonance explains how snake oil salesmen create new realities to justify promoting falsehoods. That could also be the case here. Again, the best proof is to get clinical trials done and appoved by the FDA to alleviate any questions of the product being snake oil in the first place.

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307 Lazy Man and Money July 11, 2012 at 12:06 pm

Bradley Slavik said,

“I am very interested in the motivation behind the motivation of ‘Lazy Man and Money’??? Is this web [site] only interested in helping people understand how MLM’s work and don’t work?”

Lazy Man and Money is a personal finance blog like Budgets are Sexy, Get Rich Slowly, The Simple Dollar, or hundreds of others that you may or may not have heard of. These websites try to help people with various aspects of their financial life.

At Lazy Man and Money, I have written dozens of articles on how to save money, and give people some fast financial fixes. I would have linked you to those pages on my site, but J Money’s spam filter is cracking down on comments with too many links. In any case, I have around 1500 articles and about 1-2% of them are devoted to MLM.

I have been writing about personal finance for 6 years when someone offered my wife some $45 juice called MonaVie that was supposed to cure any condition under the sun. My wife had no conditions and as a well-paid pharmacist, didn’t need or want another job selling $45 to people. You can read about My Introduction to MonaVie.

I exposed the MonaVie scam with an article that got very popular. Somehow, this got me put on a MonaVie email list (I guess someone thought I was a distributor and sold my email address) and Chris Blair, a LifeVantage distributor, spammed me saying that MonaVie was clearly a scam, but that LifeVantage Protandim was the real deal. You can read about My Introduction to LifeVantage Protandim and have sense exposed the Protandim scam with the article that you read here and a more extensive one on my site.

To summarize, Lazy Man and Money about helping make wise financial decisions, usually with very minimal effort. Part of that is not getting scammed out of your money. These MLM scams are very enticing, as you know because you joined one. Most people don’t know the reality behind them, the lies in the marketing, the fact that over 99% of people lose money in them. There’s so many things that can simply not be mentioned in this space. The funny thing is that just yesterday a commenter on my site said: “Okay, Lazy – I take it from you’re sarcastic tone that my point was so damn obvious I didn’t need to make it ;-) LOL. Well, I suppose same could be said of MLM could it not? Such an obvious racket fraught with so many obvious pitfalls and deceptions yet people still get duped and seduced into joining these deals all the time.”

So I hope you see the problem. I’m trying to help people see what is so obvious to so many people, but completely hidden from a small percentage of the population who don’t have accurate information and instead go off of a brochure that the MLM company created.

“Or do you really make money off people doing searches on the internet? It’s interesting to think of all the time and effort that the person behind this sight puts into talking about the proposed negatives from the products from LifeVantage (for example).”

I do make money money off of people doing searches on the Internet. So does CNN, USA Today, Google, Microsoft, Apple, Budgets Are Sexy, and almost every business in America. College professors have been paid to teach Buffy the Vampire in the classroom. Why shouldn’t I earn money from educating people about personal finance and how to avoid getting scammed? People are paid millions to get drunk on the MTV show Jersey Shore and that entertainment doesn’t help anyone with their finances.

If you realized that most of the research came from many people leaving comments on my site who are not compensated, the time and effort put into my article isn’t that interesting. What’s more interesting is the time and effort I put in here, that won’t earn me a dime, just to show that I care about spreading awareness.

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308 Lazy Man and Money July 11, 2012 at 12:18 pm

I should also add that as a software engineer in Silicon Valley, I would be a lot richer if I had never heard of MonaVie or Protandim. I would be very happy if both companies either disappeared overnight or got FDA approval for any medical condition they thing their products work for so that discussions like these are no longer necessary.

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309 Lazy Man and Money July 11, 2012 at 12:35 pm

Tommy V,

That’s a most interesting story you tell about Protandim and Stanford. It does seem like there’s a Tommy Vierbuchen quite prominently listed on http://stemcell.stanford.edu/. I don’t imagine there are too many Tommy V’s hanging around Stanford’s stem cell lab. It’s a little odd you didn’t give your full name when you make it so easy to verify who you are. I wonder if you didn’t because the real Tommy Vierbuchen could search his name and find out that someone impersonated him here. It’s harder to find that impersonation if it’s simply “Tommy V.”

In “your” video on that Stanford page “you” seemed to have a good grasp of English grammer, yet your comment makes a few mistakes such as “verify of its ability”, “I have been a researcher at The Institute for Stem Cell Biology and Regenerative Medicine at Stanford University, approached by a friend of mine”, and the lack of periods in the first paragraph. There are a few others such as putting this fragment as a sentence “After 3 month of independent trial.”

I’m not particularly picky when it comes to grammar and punctuation, but it is pretty clear that Stanford does look at that kind of thing. Thus your comment doesn’t seem to match up with the education level that you are claiming to have. This makes your story not believable.

In any event, your role would not carry any real weight as you work in a stem cells. It would not be a clinical trial. As you can see from the PubMed’s pyramid of effectiveness, this would only be the bottom level of a laboratory research. This doesn’t address the more important parts of the pyramid, studies observing patients, clinical trials, and systematic reviews, which is what we need to know that Protandim works.

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310 Lazy Man and Money July 11, 2012 at 2:26 pm

Rush,

You have some very good, well-thought out points. I’d like to add a couple of things.

As for the comparison to Avon, Tupperware, Pampered Chef… you can tell these products work. There is a noticeable observeable effect. With Protandim and many other thing MLMs that are in the health care area, there isn’t. As for why Protandim went to MLM, they explained it on a conerence call:

“You may not be familiar with a more recent company such as Mona Vie, which in only three years has obtained almost a billion dollars in sales, or Vango, which is about a $400.0 million company. Tahitian Noni, which is over $500.0 million. Nuwaves is also in the $500.0 million range. A number of these companies are actually single-product companies and it’s interesting to note that the single products that they are promoting and having such great success in selling are largely juices that are highly touted for their anti-oxidant benefit.

So I feel that this is a very fertile market for us to explore. It’s actually the segment of the industry that has, by far, the fastest rate of growth and is also the segment of the industry that has the vastly larger percentage of international sales than any other channel has been able to attain.”

MonaVie does have tasting parties like Tupperware, but it more of a “try this… now let me explain how MonaVie cures cancer…. now let me explain how you can spend your days on the beach by being a distributor of this product…” It’s a different kind of get together. Protandim is like that too, but there isn’t really a demonstrable product, so instead they use all the misleading “research.” It is very different than Tupperware or Avon.

That’s not to say that Avon is any good either… and Mary Kay isn’t any better.

You are right that Cutco doesn’t want their knives next to other better knives. MonaVie couldn’t sell $45 juice in any store, but as a necessary purchase in a business opportunity it sells. LifeVantage did have Protandim in GNC for years before they switched to MLM, but it failed and the company racked up debt. You can review their financials as they are a public company. However in MLM, given the incentive for people to lie and/or pitch the product’s placebo effect in order to make a buck, it sells. It’s the same product, the only difference is the marketing and illegal claims behind it.

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311 Rush July 12, 2012 at 10:10 am

Lazy Man,

I’d like to thank you for the work you have done in exposing this unscrupulous company. Although I am late to the party, this debate has been interesting to read. You can always tell when someone knows they are losing the debate when they resort to name calling, which is what some people were doing to you. I’m not sure why those folks felt so threatened. Protandim is the perfect opportunity for people like them. 1, it created a need. 2, a marketing executive was just the guy to solve the problem that he convinced people that they had. Since there is a sucker born every minute and plenty of people willing to take advantage of them, their business model will last until a cable guy invents a pill full of embryonic stem cells that will give us all super-human strength and allows us to live forever (or we get hit by a Mack truck, whichever occurs first).

Good luck. We’re all counting on you.

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312 Lazy Man and Money July 12, 2012 at 10:46 am

Those people feel threatened because potential victims of their scam are being warned in advance and hence their business of scamming the sucker born every minute (good way to put it) is in jeopardy.

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313 Blog Auger July 17, 2012 at 7:19 pm

Looks to me like Lazy Man and Money has discovered the real get rich quick scheme. Just start a blog that trashes a MLM, any MLM. Simply accuse it of being a pyramid scheme. It does not really matter if it is or not. There will be plenty of people who will buy that assertion to help justify their decision not to try. There will be plenty of people who will readily believe the worst because they tried and failed. They will be happy to engage in a spirited debate with those who are actively trying to make it work. All of this will result in lots of comments and tons of traffic to your blog. This of course, will make your blog highly visible in a Google search.

All of this will guarantee lots of unique page views which can easily be monetized into cash flow by throwing a few display ads in the sidebar. All Lazy Man has to do is stir the embers with a comment from time to time, and cash the checks. Brilliant!

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314 Lazy Man and Money July 18, 2012 at 10:01 am

Blog Auger,

Here are some details that you missed:

1) I had written daily for Lazy Man and Money two years before I had written about any MLM. Not only that but Lazy Man and Money earns the same before I wrote about MLM as it does after I wrote about MLM.

The difference is that research in MLM takes a lot more time and pays significantly less than typical personal finance as you see on sites like this one. Yes, financial companies pay a fortune for ads on pages with investing or mortgage information. Advertisements for public service articles where I warn people not to get scammed and buy snake oil pay practically nothing, since those people have been warned not to buy product.

Bottom Line: It isn’t “quick” nor is it “get rich” and it is ton more work than what I would be doing otherwise, making over $150,000 as a software engineer in Silicon Valley. I’m choosing to give up six figures a years in income to help avoid being scammed.

2) If I accuse a company of being a pyramid scheme and I’m wrong, I’ll hear it from the company’s lawyers. You can see my conversation with one of those MLM lawyers here: http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/one24-threatens-to-sue-me-for-defamation/. Read the article and scroll down and see the email conversation. I have been fairly careful not to accuse LifeVantage of being a pyramid scheme or a long time, because they do meet some of the tests of being a legit MLM, such as selling significant product to those not in the LifeVantage network. At the same time, many of those sales represent illegal marketing of medicinal cures, so if you were to take them away, and looked at the books, I’m confident it would be a pyramid scheme.

You say that I accuse companies and it doesn’t matter if they are pyramid schemes or not. I have spent a lot of time wading through tons of FTC documents to provide consumers with a resource of how they can determine themselves, through the FTC’s own guidelines, if something is a pyramid scheme or not: http://www.mlmmyth.org/mlms-vs-pyramid-schemes. Again, I’m trying to help consumers avoid these scams.

3) Aside from the whole pyramid scheme thing, you’ll notice that is one of the least important aspects of LifeVantage and Protandim in my article. That may sound crazy, but it is more about them selling snake oil, lying that the inventor was a somewhat famous doctor when he had no background in science, and a bunch of other illegal activity the company has gotten itself into (claiming that their product prevents cancer multiple times without FDA approval to make such claims).

So other than being completely wrong on every detail, Blog Auger, good work. Oh and nice job trying to sidetrack the conversation away from the article’s proven points about Protandim to attack me. The wise consumer realizes that all these things about Protandim that is being discovered on my site and made public is irrelevant to whether I make money or not. It would be like you wanting to not send your child to school because his/her teachers are paid as educators. Let me know how that works out for you.

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315 Jerry August 18, 2012 at 12:04 pm

Whew…..took me a long time to read all this. Gotta admit I started skipping towards the end. I really just wanted to find out more about the stuff….Here is my story:

54 years old. Started getting arthritis symptoms I believe. Knees ached, had pain to walk up and down stairs…..I told my daughter on a visit to her and she gave me a bottle of Protandim and asked me to try it. She said she has a friend who swears by it. Probably a seller I would guess. Only two weeks later and I have no knee pain anymore…..only thing I have changed is the taking of one pill a day….so not to get in to all the MLM stuff, but just wanted to let someone out there know it seems to have worked for me.

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316 J. Money August 18, 2012 at 12:11 pm

Awesome! I’m glad it works for you :) I’d keep taking it if it helped me too!

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317 Joseph TheRottenCore T August 18, 2012 at 5:07 pm

I have been taking Protandim for only 5 days now and all I can say is WOW!! I was very skeptical about it, I did research for a month before I bought the product. Right before I sent my CC info I had to stop and think about it. Now I wish I would have started taking it from the get go. I work at night, so during the day I sleep, well I took the product before I wen to bed. I woke up feeling refreshed, My mind and thoughts are more straight and focused. I seem to have a lot more energy. I’m able to come home from work and fall asleep fast. I was truly amazed by the product.

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318 Lazy Man and Money August 18, 2012 at 5:41 pm

Hmm, after a month of no comments there are two in a 5 hour span that anonymous people giving anonymous health testimonials. That is very suspicious especially because the stories could be made up by Protandim distributors.

It reminds me of what I wrote almost a couple of years ago on a guest post for J$ on MonaVie:

“While I generally agree with the statement “There’s nothing wrong with spending money on something you find valuable”, I think MonaVie is the exception to the rule. A lot of distributors claim they “feel better” while drinking MonaVie, and thus claim that they find MonaVie valuable. However, there is something called the placebo effect… I was visiting my two-year old niece the other night and she slipped and bumped her knee. My mother (her grandmother) offered to kiss it and make it better. Soon after the kiss my niece’s knee was fine again. Should my grandmother now go out and charge big money for being able to cure knee pain?”

One of the main points here, is that when it comes to MLM products, you’ll find numerous claims for how the products helped them. A quick internet search for Xowii, Xango, Nopalea, etc. show any number of examples. One common thing of note here is that the distribution method is always MLM, you never hear claims that Ocean Spray or Centrum helped cure people of anything.

Clearly, the logical conclusion is that products sold via the MLM, whatever they may be, are magical healers for any number of conditions if you believe the anonymous testimonials on the internet.

On the other hand, if the products actually worked for the things that these anonymous people claimed, the companies would get it approved by the FDA for that condition and make billions of dollars. For instance, if Protandim were a viable treatment for arthritis, LifeVantage would be the first ones to run to submit clinical evidence so that they could make their billions.

LifeVantage has not moved forward to show that Protandim helps with any medical condition at all which is undeniable proof that even they do not consider helpful for any condition.

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319 William Black August 18, 2012 at 11:52 pm

As I have said before in this post, I have seen some of the lab bench research first-hand on protandim from Dr. McCord (he was on my committee for my PhD) – i dont know the molecular effects in humans as i was on the pre-clinical side of research but it did have a profound effect in vitro – significant increases in the expression of a battery of antioxidant enzymes. This is the future of antioxidant research – where a single enzyme can effectively quench millions of free radicals versus 1 molecule of vit c quenches 1 free radical and is spent….As for the monetary side of protandim i leave that to those that distribute but for what it’s worth the preclinical science was solid and frankly fascinating.

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320 Jerry August 19, 2012 at 1:07 pm

Maybe, just maybe, you are too suspicious of a person?..I suppose, as you stated that the comments could be made up by distributors……..of course there is also the chance that they are simply the truth???..Not everything nor everyone in life has an ulterior motive Lazy?………..Not sure how anything on this site can not be anonymous?…..My words were honest and as I shared, my intent was simply to learn a bit more about the product. Instead I got a bit involved in the comments that went back and forth for waaaaaay to long…actually bored me as they went along…….anyway it really does not matter to me and I certainly do not care about the MLM issues……not my deal…..Just saying the product has seemed to have helped me. Thats all……..you can keep looking for things that are not there I suppose…..sad that so many do.

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321 Lazy Man and Money August 19, 2012 at 8:07 pm

William Black,

As you know there are probably literally millions of studies that look in vitro that don’t translate in vivo. There was a lot of hype around MonaVie because one study showed that acai berries killed cancer cells in vitro – http://news.ufl.edu/2006/01/12/berries/. It is utter nonsense for a consumer to make a buying decision based on these studies.

Before a consumer buys any product, they should been shown to have some clinical effectiveness. The National Institute of Health has a great page on that here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/aboutcer/.

Protandim had one non-random clinical trial of less than 30 people back in 2005 where they appeared to fudge the data (evidence on my website). In the last 6+ years they’ve had one other clinical trial (a very obscure condition that wouldn’t help 0.00001% of the population) and the placebo group had better results. If Protandim had any practical hope of being clinically effective, LifeVantage would have been getting the studies done. You can go to ClinicalTrials.gov and search for “Protandim” to see their trials that never got off the ground.

If this was truly the future of anything in the medical community, you’d have seen a lot more interest by that community. Heck, every piece of research is published with LifeVantage’s Joe McCord.

Don’t discount 1 molecule of vitamin C, either. We covered that around comment 200. The number of molecules in a vitamin C supplement is astronomical.

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322 Lazy Man and Money August 19, 2012 at 9:58 pm

Jerry,

You can read the 1500 posts on my site and see that I’m not too suspicious of a person. You can also read the the the 6,000+ comments on my MonaVie post where similar claims to yours are made time and time again. It led me to look into numerous MLM marketing products and you’ll find that these claims are the norm for MLM products. There’s a great New York Times article on a few of them here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/us/politics/21hatch.html?_r=1

None of the MLM products have been approved by the FDA to help with any medical conditions.

Clearly all these products have one thing in common: they are distributed by MLM where people have a financial incentive to make illegal claims. You never see such claims being made of Welch’s grape juice.

With Protandim, it is especially interesting. It was sold at GNC from 2006 to 2009 and there were no claims on the web about it helping people with anything. Now that it’s sold via MLM, the claims of it helping with medical conditions are all over the place.

I’m not saying that you are lying, but I’m simply stating that such claims are tied to the industry of selling a product via the MLM and everyone reading such claims has to be aware of that.

There’s also something called the placebo effect. Thirty percent of people taking a pill that we know does not help with any medical condition will report that the pill helped them. It’s like an optical illusion where you see a drawings of a guy wearing vertical stripes and one wearing horizontal stripes. The horizontal stripe drawing looks like a fatter guy, but when you measure them with a ruler you see that they are the same. This is why scientists have placebo-controlled testing… testimonials like ones you left are simply not scientifically useful… you could be one of the 30% experiencing the placebo effect.

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323 Bagara August 24, 2012 at 2:02 pm

Dear those who are worried about Protandim. Yes, trials were done on mice and there were positive outcome. But, also blood test were ran on indiviuals to test the tbar. Which shows the results of a 20 yr. old. Blood test don’t lie. All trials are done on rats/mice.. even the lipstick your wife wears..she wears it- and it’s probably bad for her. Anyway, pubmed.gov is the stability behind these facts. Joe MCcord would not back this with his name and have conducted studies himself if he didn’t see or understood the schience behind it. So where one has an opinion..it doesn’t surmount to the facts.

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324 Lazy Man and Money August 25, 2012 at 12:36 pm

Bagara,

At my site, I point out how they fudged the data on the test in individuals, how the TBAR test is very unreliable, and how it hasn’t been connected to helping people in any way. There were also negative results in test done recently.

The tests on lipstick is to make sure that the product won’t put you in danger. They aren’t testing lipstick to see if it is enhancing your health.

Anyway clinicaltrials.gov is the instability behind Protandim ;-).

Joe McCord has received anywhere from 10 to 30 million dollars from LifeVantage. A lot of people would back their name for a lot less. I can pretty much guarantee you that it’s more than he’s made in his academic career.

I’ve presented the facts, there are very few opinions from me.

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325 PAK September 22, 2012 at 4:27 pm

IMHO Avon is a pyramid scheme, and I am the most skeptical person on the planet!!!! However, my cleaning lady is selling this stuff and I intend to at least give it a try.

I feel strongly that Dr. Oz is a snake oil salesman who allows anyone to come on his show and present questionable products, with incredible claims. I’ve tried a lot of them and so far, I haven’t got a positive thing to say about anything that I bought as a result of his show. His guests recipes are NEVER diabetes friendly!

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326 Lazy Man and Money September 23, 2012 at 12:01 am

Hey, if your cleaning lady is selling the stuff, it must be legit. Remember that some 30% of people who try an inert pill will claim it works.

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327 Been there October 2, 2012 at 7:47 pm

Protandim made me seriously ill, and not just once. I didn’t want to believe this “miracle” pill could mess with my already exceptionally healthy body. My friend wouldn’t steer me wrong. Thing is, how was she to know I’d have extreme vomiting & explosive diarrhea? And don’t tell me my body was ridding itself of toxins, BULL. I eat holistic, organic food. I’m an athlete and in supurb condition. Thinking I had a bout of food poisoning, I tried it again with even worse results. I chunked that protandim garbage in the trash.

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328 Julie November 13, 2012 at 12:37 pm

I have to chime in here. I am an experienced network marketer. I was with a company for a couple of years that flew to its peak fast and is now falling like a house of cards due to its fast approaching saturation. I made a lot of money and helped people get healthy along the way. While I was looking to jump off that sinking ship to ride a rising tide I was approached with Protandim. I have a fatal illness that is being kept at bay with the products from my previous company. So I shelved my products and tried protandim for a month. It made my symptoms from my disease worse. I became sick throwing up and nauseous all the time. So I took the product to my homeopathic doctor who told me those herbs, some of which are very poisonous even in minimal doses, were causing my sickness. I immediately stopped taking protandim and right away the symptoms dissipated. I would never let even my dog take that product after the effects I experienced. So, no more network marketing or mlm’s for me. It’s an ensustainable industry. I’ve experienced it myself. The big sell is not the products. It is the dream of residual income. Honestly, I made less per hour for the time I put into that business than I would have made at a job. The higher up I got in the company the less time freedom I had. I bought that dream and I turned around and sold it to others. I didn’t realize till the end that that’s all it was…a dream. Good luck mlm’ers. You’ll all come to this same realization eventually. Don’t let it be at the expense of time with those you love most.

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329 Dan Suit November 20, 2012 at 3:43 pm

If you’re reading this site, please take many of the posts with a grain of salt. Lazy man and money is paid to promote his website, and he attacks network marketing companies. See protandimretort.com.

Many posts here might be posted by competitors, and could be true or not. If you’re looking for an excuse not to take it, you don’t need to take these talking points, that may be true or not.

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330 Kayla November 21, 2012 at 10:55 pm

Lazy Man and Money- Thank you and keep doing what you are doing! You should keep in contact with some of these Protandim distributors and have then come back and post comments in five years, i love a good i told ya so. I wish everyone the best of luck, just remember that dreams don’t always become a reality. I do believe that oxidative stress is real, but this lady who talked to me about protandim told me i need to breathe less. Now i know there are always a few bad eggs but really those words came out of her mouth.

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331 Jester January 3, 2013 at 11:42 am

This is response to Been There. I’m taking Protandium but don’t sell it, about month and a half I’ve been taking it. About a month the same thing happen to be. It was the sickest I’d ever been. Thought it might be the Protandium. Then found out half my my family got sick after a get together and it was even going through kids daycare. Sounds like to me you just had the flu that has been going around.

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332 Mary Clark May 2, 2013 at 12:27 am

It’s now 2013- do you have any more information on Protandim and Lifevantage? I am in Brisbane Australia and was introduced to Protandim from family in US. Lifevantage Australia Pty Ltd ABN: 27 155 138 382 was set up in January 2012 in Sydney. Curious if this is still considered a scam from a financial standpoint. Thanks!!

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333 Lazy Man and Money May 2, 2013 at 8:42 am

I routine update my article with more information from LifeVantage from time to time. Nothing significant has changed, it’s still a scam.

From a financial standpoint the company doesn’t even put out an income disclosure statement like other pyramid schemes MLMs. When they can’t even complete this basic step, it’s really not worth considering them from a financial standpoint.

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334 Chris May 23, 2013 at 2:19 pm

Lazy man probably owns this site to!! I’m not sure what the truth is but I have found just as many sites and blogs claiming Lazy Man is a scam himself. This guys makes profit from controversy. The money controversy the more people visit his sites, the more money he makes!! I would just try the product or find someone you know and trust that is using it and make the decision for yourself. Don’t listen to the Lazy Man, he makes a living blogging, a like biased if you ask me. The Lazy man owns multiple sites bashing multiple products, all for profit.

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335 LisaRob May 23, 2013 at 3:00 pm

Chris
You act like making money is some sort of crime. Lazyman is telling the truth (lets see you dispute any of it in a logical manner). I don’t know or care how much money he makes. Newscasters get paid too…..are they all scams?

Lifevantage makes money selling unproven snake oil to gullible people. That’s about as sleezy as you can get.

You can’t dispute what he is saying, so you just try to smear him. Pathetic.

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336 Lazy Man and Money May 23, 2013 at 3:12 pm

No Chris, I don’t own this site. You must think I have infinite time to write articles.

I’m not creating controversy, just reporting it. All the things that I said are true are you can verify it yourself as I’ve provided trusted sources for all information (except for the stuff that falls into common sense).

The reason I created ProtandimScams.com is because so much of the information came up in the investigation in my research on Lazy Man and Money that it was getting buried in the comments. For example, showing that LifeVantage was lying about McCord creating the product required a screenshot of the original lie that he created it solely. Then it required showing the video where McCord claimed that he did the majority of the work. Finally, it required showing the signed and dated document from McCord back in 2005 saying that it was already created and he didn’t feel that he did enough to be qualified as an inventor.

Telling that story and backing it up with evidence is an article in and of itself. You can read it here: http://www.protandimscams.com/lifevantage-and-dr-joe-mccord-lie-about-the-creation-of-protandim/ If I tried to put all this in on article on Lazy Man and Money, people would just give up because they don’t have time to read 200 pages of proof showing that it is a scam. I simply created the other site as a way that anyone interested in drilling down to learn more can.

So now that you know why I created the other site and you know the story about McCord lying about creating the product, with video evidence, do you still think I’m creating controversy to make money? Use a little common sense. I didn’t make the company lie about McCord. I didn’t make McCord produce the video of the lie. I certainly didn’t make up the proof that he admitted way back having not contributed to the product.

If you still think the product is great, LifeVantage is a publicly traded company, LFVN. Why don’t you go look at how much they spent on Research and Development? They barely do any.

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337 Jim Murray June 1, 2013 at 9:28 pm

Protandim was a joint government project to save social security medical money on boomers.boomers To keep them working longer and though health offset Gov’t expenses..expenses Good idea even though life extension has not been shown to increase more than 20 years under the most desirable circumstances. Welcome to the working world boomers HA HA LOL!

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338 Brent Allred August 16, 2013 at 10:04 am

Pyramid Scheme
Understand the definition: A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business that involves the exchange of money, usually in the form of a sign-up fee, and usually has no product or service.
2 Know that pyramid schemes are ILLEGAL! The only people that are able to make money on a pyramid scheme are the people at the top of the pyramid. As stated above, because pyramid schemes offer no product or service, no possible way exists for the people at the bottom of the pyramid to make any money. The only way to make money in a pyramid scheme is to sign-up new members for a fee. However, as the above picture shows, this becomes impossible when the scheme reaches a certain level. The end result is that people can spend upwards of several thousand dollars to enroll in one of these scams and will end up losing everything.

Common Elements

1 Learn the common elements. As the United State Securities and Exchange Commission states, “[t]he hallmark of these schemes is the promise of sky-high returns in a short period of time for doing nothing other than handing over your money and getting others to do the same. The fraudsters behind a pyramid scheme may go to great lengths to make the program look like a legitimate multi-level marketing program. But despite their claims to have legitimate products or services to sell, these fraudsters simply use money coming in from new recruits to pay off early stage investors.”
2 Look for other identifying characteristics to look for are: (1) Vague descriptions about the company from which your questions can only be answered by signing up and paying the fee; (2) No product or service being offered or a product that sells at a highly inflated price; (3) A majority or all of the possible income to be made comes from the sign-up fee from new enrollees; and (4) Repeated assurances that the company is completely legal.

Multi-Level Marketing

1 Understand the difference. Multi-level marketing companies follow a similar concept to a pyramid scheme, which is a reason for most of the confusion, except that two significant differences exist.
One difference is that members at any level of a multi-level marketing model can make income through the company’s products and/or services without signing up any new members.
The second difference is that members of any level in a multi-level can advance past the people who signed them up.
Finally,multi-level marketing companies are LEGAL!
2 Understand why. You may be asking, “if all the confusion, why then do these companies initiate this business model?” The main reason for this type of model is to reduce the cost of advertising. We can all agree that effective advertising in this day and age can cost a bundle. Many new companies do not have this much capital in the beginning. Therefore, one solution is to reward the company’s members for “spreading the word.” Instead of the company spending hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars on advertising, the company gives the members an incentive, usually in the form of money, for signing up new members to sell/use the company’s product and/or service.
Unlike a pyramid scheme, any member on any level can make money without ever having to sign-up a new member. However, once some of these proper multi-level marketing companies reach a certain population level, it becomes either impossible for any new people to sign-up or impossible for them to make big money. Therefore, the people at the bottom cannot make bonuses for sign-ups, but they will still be able to make money based on the company’s product and/or services.

Common Elements

1 Little or no enrollment fee;
2 The company completely explains itself, its products, and its services BEFORE you sign-up;
3 A member’s main source of income will come from selling or offering the company’s products and/or services; and
4 A member can make money at ANY level of the model WITHOUT signing up new members
5 These elements assure that the member will have a fair chance to make money from the company. However, as is true with any venture, your income depends on your ability to sell products or offer services. Any company that promises you money for doing nothing is not being honest with you.

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339 Lazy Man and Money August 16, 2013 at 11:04 am

Brent Allred, who ever informed you that pyramid schemes usually don’t have a product or service involved is either lying to you or simply misinformed. The FTC specifically says that some MLMs are pyramid schemes – http://business.ftc.gov/documents/inv08-bottom-line-about-multi-level-marketing-plans. It has had MLMs like JewelWay and Fortune High Tech Marketing (FHTM), both which have products, shut down for being pyramid schemes.

You may be confused with Ponzi schemes, but that’s an entirely different subject.

I suggest that you read through the FTC link. You’ll find that the possibility of earning money in other ways from recruiting people doesn’t save it from being a pyramid scheme (JewelWay and FHTM had these) and the ability to advance above those who recruited you is also not mentioned (this was also possible in FHTM and I think JewelWay).

Your comment is a great example of why MLMs are scammy and probably should be banned. Someone in MLM creates this erroneous information and it continues to spread.

MLMs don’t really save money on advertising. You can see that MLMs actually advertise by hiring sports people to endorse the product. They have auto-racing cars. They produce brochures to advertise the business opportunity, though the sales people have to buy these. They have special advertising sections in the Wall Street Journal. There’s advertising all over the place.

If you believe that a company is choosing MLM because they want to avoid the cost of advertising, they are simply not being honest with you. They are trying to sell product and a sales opportunity (including sales materials, conference fees, etc.) to distributors. If they really wanted to just avoid the cost of advertising, simply create a free affiliate product like Amazon has. It’s really cheap and easy. If you make a sale you get a commission… there’s no need to wrap a multilevel, recruiting pyramid scheme into it… unless your product is so crappy that you need to bundle a “business opportunity” to get people interested in it.

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340 Tammy September 2, 2013 at 2:31 pm

There is one problem with your article. It works. I am not selling Protandim. I am a health care researcher who makes nothing by explaining this. I do use it. But only AFTER reading the Pub Med reports on how it significantly reduced oxidative stress on specific conditions. There were many of these reports. Yes, some of the reports were regarding tests on animals, and while their bodies are different from ours, oxidative stress is a reality which occurs in everything from apples to humans. Something that reduces oxidation of proteins, lipids and your DNA would most likely be a good thing . While you may sell Mona Vie, be aware that Mona Vie does not out perform grape juice and some other anti-oxidants on the market, including some sold by MLM. Any anti-oxidant is better than none at all, but putting others down with conjecture of the business model without considering the science is not helpful.

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341 Lisarob September 2, 2013 at 9:51 pm

Tammy

It’s a good thing you aren’t getting paid to “explain this,” because you haven’t explained anything.

It’s clear that as a “healthcare researcher,” you have no scientific training, because if you did, you could not possibly have looked at the studies and come to the conclusion that Protandim “works” for anything.

You say, “it significantly reduced oxidative stress on specific conditions”……which specific conditions are you talking about? There are no studies showing that Protandim reduces oxidative stress on ANY “conditions”. In fact, that statement doesn’t even make sense.

You say, “Yes, some of the reports were regarding tests on animals.” Come on now……you must KNOW that to date there have been only two studies NOT done on rodents or in test tubes…..that’s not “some,” that’s the vast majority! Of the two human studies, the only one with placebo control was an utter failure for Protandim. No way around it.

It looks like you are the one not honestly considering the “science” behind Protandim.

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342 Tammy September 9, 2013 at 9:51 pm

Your cynical statements are not true (regarding my education or training) and while meant to be funny and refute something to defend your article, when you make a slanderous ad hominem attack you are being irresponsible and dishonest. OK you sell Mona Vie, good for you. You wish to attack Protandim, your competitor, but give no science why it doesn’t work. There are more than 2 studies on Pub Med and anyone can Google that for themselves. Although, I did not find your product to be a better anti oxidant than some less expensive options, doing something to focus on our health is better than nothing. Good luck with your Mona Vie business.

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343 Lazy Man and Money September 9, 2013 at 10:41 pm

Tammy,

It is unclear who you are replying to here. You make a point about statements about your education and training which seem to be aimed at LisaRob… and in fact you reply to her. Yet you suggest she is trying to defend her article… and it’s not her article.

There’s nothing slanderous here as there’s nothing spoken. It’s all written.

There are also no ad hominem attacks here. You tried to make an appeal to authority as a “health care researcher” and yet gave no proof of that authority. It’s terrible form.

There’s no need to give reasons why the “science” of Protandim doesn’t work. That’s a clear Burden of Proof Fallacy (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof). The burden of proof is on LifeVantage to show that it does work. This is done through clinical trials with the FDA. It’s not my job to show that something couldn’t possibly work.

Again, no one here is selling MonaVie. In fact, I have put extensive time and effort into showing that it is a similar, or worse, scam. Spend a couple of minutes reading and understanding, please.

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344 Lisarob September 9, 2013 at 11:41 pm

Tammy,
No one said there were only two studies. There are only two published studies done on humans. All the other studies are either done in test tubes, or on rodents.

I have no idea why you think I (or Lazyman) sell MonaVie.

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345 Lazy Man and Money September 2, 2013 at 7:02 pm

It doesn’t work. If it did, LifeVantage would be the first in line to get the clinical trials completed and get it FDA approved for any medical condition. It’s tacit proof that they know it doesn’t work.

As for the studies on PubMed, they aren’t to be relied upon. You’d do well to read this article: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/what-do-scientific-studies-show/. Even when there are thousands of independent human studies on vitamin E, they conflict. Surely, you aren’t going to use a dozen of studies predominantly on animals and in test tubes sway your opinion as a “health researcher.”

It’s also worth noting that an article in JAMA, a much more reputable journal than anything publishing studies on Protandim, shows that increasing oxidative stress is better for extending lifespan. Here’s information on that: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2011/08/the_doctor_and_the_pomegranate.html. Anti-oxidants themselves are not shown to be helpful.

Neither me, the guest author, or J$ the publisher of this website sells MonaVie. I was one of the first people on the Internet to reveal that MonaVie does not out perform grape juice, so thanks for telling me information that I help spread 5 years ago.

Here’s a last thought. Tumeric, one of the ingredients of Protandim has been shown to reduce oxidative stress itself. There are plenty of PubMed articles on it. If your goal is to reduce oxidative stress via what PubMed research shows, why not buy tumeric and save yourself $600 a year. If you don’t need the money, donate it to a worthy charity. It will do a world of good.

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346 lisa October 24, 2013 at 12:24 am

Lazy man you really are funny and uneducated

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347 Lazy Man and Money October 24, 2013 at 8:42 pm

Lisa, I’m quite educated (multiple degrees from a top 30 school) and you are not at all funny ;-).

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348 Fred Bar December 11, 2013 at 9:03 am

What about all these positive studies?

1) June 2010: The Dietary Supplement Protandim® Decreases Plasma Osteopontin and Improves Markers of Oxidative Stress in Muscular Dystrophy MdxMice
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2926985/

2) April 2009: Protandim, a Fundamentally New Antioxidant Approach in Chemoprevention Using Mouse Two-Stage Skin Carcinogenesis as a Mode
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2668769/

3) July 2010: The Chemopreventive Effects of Protandim: Modulation of p53 Mitochondrial Translocation and Apoptosis during Skin Carcinogenesis
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2912769/

4) Mar 2011: Protandim attenuates intimal hyperplasia in human saphenous veins cultured ex vivo via a catalase-dependent pathway.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21167278

5) Feb 2009: Synergistic induction of heme oxygenase-1 by the components of the antioxidant supplement Protandim.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19056485

6) Oct 2011: Oxidative stress in health and disease: the therapeutic potential of Nrf2 activation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22020111

7) From the Multiple Sclerosis Journal: P826 Nrf2 activators: a novel strategy to promote oligodendrocyte survival in multiple sclerosis?
http://msj.sagepub.com/content/17/10_suppl/S277.full

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